Illigitimate Children

[chocolateismybestfriend]

I was listening to this tape last night, and Bro Branham said that he doubt's if 12 people would make the rapture.

TWELVE...

TWELVE!

I believe God to be in the minority in this day.. but 12! wow... that sets you down and makes you think.

Anyway.. .thats a lil off topic, but what he said after that is my question :

STRAIT.IS.THE.GATE_ JEFF.IN CH 35-66 SUNDAY_ 59-0301M
100 You say, "Preacher, you mean to tell me you doubt a dozen out of this millions and four billion people in the world?" I doubt whether there'll be a dozen that'll make the rapture. Think of it. I'm telling you what Jesus said here in the Gospel. Think of it.
What's it got to? Because the immorality got amongst the people, illegitimate children started being born, that blots them out

---------------------

Does the last statement mean that illegitmate children are blotted out?
Or does it mean the people who created these illegitmate children are blotted out?
or does it mean both?

what exactly is "blotted out" anyway?

[chocolateismybestfriend]

Oh, i just realised the title is spelt wrong... someone fix it please!! :|

[joris]

Does the last statement mean that illegitmate children are blotted out?
Or does it mean the people who created these illegitmate children are blotted out?
or does it mean both?I don't know what he was talking about; maybe it's about false religion -- by all means, it's NOT about illegitimate children; as some friends say, Jesus, He was created, He grew in Mary her womb outside of a marriage, and by that, also He took on all punishment, shame, guilt, everything, of being born a *******; now don't say He carried it for nothing
ah, so great is His grace, He really knows how everything we go through, how it feels, what it is like...

edit: hey something is... I wasn't cursing; he took on the shame of being b-a-s-t-a-r-d

[Jezz]

Time to take what Brother Branham said back to the Bible :)

Deuteronomy 23:2
A ******* shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.

Well Brother Branham suggests that it is the illegitimate children that are "blotted" out. Blotting was what they did in the old days to erase mistakes when writing, if you remember from Enid Blyton books :) So if God blotted out illegitimate children he would be wiping them out.

GOD.BEING.MISUNDERSTOOD_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 61-0723E
614-Q-142 142. Deuteronomy the 23rd chapter, the 2nd verse, doesn't it teach that a person whom out of wedlock cannot be saved? It says that God will visit the iniquity of the parents upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Explain what this means.
All right. Adultery was such a horrible thing in the time of the Bible until even if a man had a child by a woman that wasn't his wife, that child, its children's children's children, for four generations, four hundred and something years, could not enter even into the congregation of the Lord, because that the blood of bulls and goats and heifers was not sufficient to take away sin. It could only divorce--or could only cover sin, it could not omit sin. See? It could not omit sin, it could only cover sin. Adultery is a horrible thing.
A woman, a precious jewel, that God has made her to be a mother, and entrusted her with motherhood, that if she would bring forth a child from another man not being her husband, then there was a curse upon that child, and his children, and his children, and his children, to three and four generations. Even many times such as syphilitic, and--and blindness and things struck the people. Yes, it was a horrible, horrible thing for a woman to have a baby outside of holy wedlock. Now, not only then, but it's still a horrible thing, sure is, always.

Hebrews 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The blood of bulls and of goats cannot take away sin but the blood of the Lamb of God can. That would seem to suggest then that an illegitimate child can be saved because there is a blood offering that takes away sin.

Hebrews 12:6-8
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye *******s, and not sons.

Hebrews 12:8 says that someone who isn't chastised (loved) of the Lord is a ******* and not a son (of God).

Ok, I wasn't swearing either :-p I'm sure you know what that word is by now though :)

[joris]

Hebrews 12:6-8
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye *******s, and not sons.:confused:I rather think this text is to comfort, comfort those christians who go through difficult trials

[BroTrevor]

This one I am unsure on....


QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.2_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E
1035-Q-308 308. Dear Brother Branham, if a baby is born of a--out of wedlock, can this child ever be saved or go in the rapture?
Saved? Why sure, I believe the child could be... The child can't help what's been done. That is true. But I... About going in the rapture... Saved, I'd say, "Yes." But in the rapture it's a predestinated seed that goes in the rapture. And I can't believe that adultery was a predestinated seed. You understand? See? I believe the people can--the baby can be saved; it has no--no rights of its own. It's a awful act and things.
But now, in the Old Testament when a baby was born a ******* child, it could not even enter the congregation of the Lord for ten generations, four hundred and something years, that curse was so bad. Just think of that. A innocent baby, its great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren, just think, the baby's great, great, great, ten great grandchildren could not even come in the congregation of God. That's right.
But you see, there was nothing there strong enough to forgive that sin. The blood of the Old Testament did not forgive sins; it covered sins. But the Blood of Jesus Christ divorces it. That's different now. When the Blood of Jesus Christ comes in, it's the different.


So basically he's saying Saved Yes, rapture no.

But continue to read on... and he says the Blood of Jesus Chist divorces sin.

Ezekiel 18 also deals with this kind of thing and must be taken into account.

Ezekiel 18:2-9
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.


This whole chapter is a good read for pondering this subject.


Ok, so now that that is all done and said, let's remember 1 thing. This is the infinite foreknowledge of God we're talking about here to. This is also something that is yet to take place (who will be in the rapture and who wouldn't be)

So you can decide what you think will happen. It will be 1 of a couple scenarios.

1) Illigitimate children will not be in the rapture. But will be saved of the second death at white throne judgement if they love God.

2) Illigitimate children will be in the rapture.

Now... those are the two possibilities as I see them. As this is something to happen in the future...who is to say which is right ultimately because it has yet to be MANIFESTED. And as we know, that's how God interprets His word. by MANIFESTATION.

THAT BEING SAID.....

Let's look at our actions in light of this. If you love God because you see that you are a sinner...(irrespective of your parents actions)...and recognize that He paid a price so that you didn't have to die a sinner...and you recieve His love and love Him back...how are you going to behave?

Bro Branham told us our love for Him should be such that "tho he send me to hell, yet I'll still serve Him"

The Christian life is so great, that irrespective of the consequence...it's how I'd live anyhow.

SO really the outcome doesn't matter if you really love God. Your actions will still be the same, whether option #1 or option #2.

Because...

It's all about love. Oh yeah...

[joris]

is there some explanation to read as I don't really have the clear picture of "predestinated seed"

sorry for this but... saying a person is not in rapture, not because of him rejecting Jesus sacrifice, not even because of being christian but living sinfull, but worse, because of not one sin of his own but of the sin of his parents... ouch... to me that feel like, I can't picture that, anyway not with a loving God as our God is, not with a God sacrificing Jesus to save us all :confused:

[collegegirl]

This is a strong thread.

Makes me want to live a more holy life.

I can't put in my $.02 because I don't have it. I can only ponder on the subject, and how to apply it to my own life.

Let it be known, with a subject as serious as this, (even though I would never do it anyways) after reading this I would not want to have an illigitimate child, as to what his future might be. But this thread will help keep me on the straight path, for whatever trials and snares the devil might use to tempt me with. He is getting bolder, let me tell you that.

[joris]

Let it be known, with a subject as serious as this, (even though I would never do it anyways) after reading this I would not want to have an illigitimate child, as to what his future might be. But this thread will help keep me on the straight path, for whatever trials and snares the devil might use to tempt me with. He is getting bolder, let me tell you that.erm, I don't really understand how you came about to write that but --
Lord, He will protect you. try and stay close to Him, share all your fears and longings, and He'll provide what you need
I hope this is a help for you :)

[Angelo]

Thanks for that post Bro T. It gave me confidence because I myself am an illigitimate child. My uncle told me that but I couldn't accept it. Ti's true that the fathers iniquity is passed on to generation to generation, and may become greater and greater unless God intervene. Wthout His grace man cannot overcome it.

Don't be troubled Joris to the fact that these iniquities are passed or inherent. God is not unjust to judge a person without him having the chance to change and hear the gospel. If one will be condemned because of it, it is still imputed unto him because of his own decision to sin. It isn't proper also to blame it to the parents if one is in the situation.

On my part, I understand my parents, especially my mom that I knew. I have seen her struggles in life. Though she was successful materially, happiness was far from her. Her religion did not have the power to change her lifestyle. Though she equipped herself with all the gods (idols) she could collect, holiness was still far from her. Only Christ can set us free.

[jordancpeterson]

The Christian life is so great, that irrespective of the consequence...it's how I'd live anyhow.

That is really good Brother Trevor! I've always heard this but this just brought it back home for me! Thank you!

[joris]

Don't be troubled Joris to the fact that these iniquities are passed or inherent.just to make sure I understand what you say -- not sin, or guilt, is passed, but -- iniquities, yes <tendency for some particular kind of sin>
oh well :y10:

I have a question, but I don't like it -- my brother... well he was born like seven months after the date of marriage of my parents, see?
well :( :confused:

[BroTrevor]

I have a question, but I don't like it -- my brother... well he was born like seven months after the date of marriage of my parents, see?
well :( :confused:

again...consequences don't really matter to one who really loves the Lord anyhow does it?

Do we love the Lord because he's going to take us to heaven only? Is it really all about me?

No, I love Jesus because I've seen how He works. I've seen His love. I've seen His healing. I've seen the Word He has given us on how to live is the best way to be happy. He's given us much... He alone holds joy, happiness, peace, and love.

If I cease to exist the day I die. If there wasn't a rapture, or a heaven I'd love Him and serve Him anyhow.

[joris]

If I cease to exist the day I die. If there wasn't a rapture, or a heaven I'd love Him and serve Him anyhow.yeah, remember how you came to believe; few actually became christians to get to heaven;) it's because of His accepting love; that I see yes
my problem with this thing is more... His love is not conditional; it feels as if you're saying it is

[JoeC]

OK, so we know that unlike the blood of bulls, God's blood divorces sin. Illegitmate children can be saved.

Now, can they go in the rapture? The entire arguement seems to rests on whether or not they could be predestinated. The arguement for them not being able to be predestinated would be that "adultery can't be predestinated."

I don't know if I can agree with that. Take a look at the family tree of Jesus - I'd have a hard time believing that the blood line wasn't arranged by God, and we see adultery and incest there.

Also, I thought all who came to Christ were predestinated and that the criteria for rapture was the Holy Ghost...?

Thoughts?

[BroTrevor]

yeah, remember how you came to believe; few actually became christians to get to heaven;) it's because of His accepting love; that I see yes
my problem with this thing is more... His love is not conditional; it feels as if you're saying it is

His love is not conditional.

Do not forget tho that He also is a just God. He is a soveriegn God. If He said something in his Word, then He will keep that.

[blessed]

Correct me if I misunderstood this but what you all are saying is that children concieved (not necessarily born) out of wedlock will not make it to the rapture?

[BroTrevor]

Correct me if I misunderstood this but what you all are saying is that children concieved (not necessarily born) out of wedlock will not make it to the rapture?

I didn't say it... a prophet of God seems to not be positive that it will happen.



QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.2_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E
1035-Q-308 308. Dear Brother Branham, if a baby is born of a--out of wedlock, can this child ever be saved or go in the rapture?
Saved? Why sure, I believe the child could be... The child can't help what's been done. That is true. But I... About going in the rapture... Saved, I'd say, "Yes." But in the rapture it's a predestinated seed that goes in the rapture. And I can't believe that adultery was a predestinated seed. You understand? See? I believe the people can--the baby can be saved; it has no--no rights of its own. It's a awful act and things.
But now, in the Old Testament when a baby was born a ******* child, it could not even enter the congregation of the Lord for ten generations, four hundred and something years, that curse was so bad. Just think of that. A innocent baby, its great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren, just think, the baby's great, great, great, ten great grandchildren could not even come in the congregation of God. That's right.
But you see, there was nothing there strong enough to forgive that sin. The blood of the Old Testament did not forgive sins; it covered sins. But the Blood of Jesus Christ divorces it. That's different now. When the Blood of Jesus Christ comes in, it's the different.


I don't claim to understand.. and I'd love to say... don't worry, illigitimate children will be in the rapture... but can I really do that with positivity... no I can't.

I can see where the blood of Jesus Christ divorces sin...and it certainly would seem to me that it should not matter. But, I also have to take into account what a vindicated prophet of God said above.

but again... it should hardly change things if we are in love with Him.

[BroTrevor]

of course... my main thoughts that I wish to leave is that...

if I were illigitimatly born... (and who knows how good my ancestry is..) I would hold on to the fact that the blood of Jesus Christ divorces sin.

I would love Jesus with all my heart and serve Him with all that I could do.

The final outcome is completely up to my soveriegn God. I rest in Him.

I have good friends who I know are illigitimately born. I tend to think they'll be in the rapture with me. This is my personal opinion however...

[blessed]

My mom was pregnant with me a little over a month before she got married, and yes i believe that I will make the rapture because Jesus said so. If you read the bible and look at the family tree of Jesus, there was a lot of not to right things goin on there e.g. Rahab a harlot, Tamar- remember what she did and Jacob said she was more righteous than him ( because she wanted to bring forth a child who would carry on the name ) there are lots more and still out of that line came forth the promised Son.

This rapture has nothing to do with the flesh, Jesus saves you, gives you his life and you grow in his image and He baptises you with his spirit. I am not disputing what the prophet said I will have to listen to the entire messages in which he made those comments. I don't read a one liner and make decisions on that, I like to see where the sprit is leading.

One thing I know for sure is that I was on his mind before the foundation of the earth, I am his child and according to His promise I am redeemed. Oh and one more thought Never underestimate the power of the Blood, it can do wonders. God bless u all.

[FreeAtLast]

Thank God for the blood of Jesus Christ!!

As far as I know there is only one sin that can never be forgiven and that´s the sin against the Holy Ghost.

[Angelo]

Amen to that.

GO.WAKE.JESUS_ TUCSON.AZ SUNDAY_ 63-1103
68 Now, my old southern mother, when I was just a little boy, before I was converted, she was a good woman then.
69 I had the privilege of leading my mother to Christ, and baptize her, and seeing her die, hold her hands while she died, and speaking of Jesus till she couldn't even speak no more, praise His Name. I said, "Mother, if you still love Him, bat your eyes," and she just bat her eyes, and the tears running down her cheeks, when she went to meet God.
70 And she used to say to me, before she knew better, "Billy, when the--the blaspheming of the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin," she said, "that means a human that would take his own life, he can't be forgiven for it." That was her idea of it. But later we understand that blaspheme is to "ridicule, or make fun of, talk about and to make fun of the Holy Ghost."

GO.WAKE.JESUS_ TUCSON.AZ SUNDAY_ 63-1103
71 And Jesus here told them, said, "You can say those things and call me Beelzebub, that, I'll forgive you for that. But when the Holy Ghost comes after I'm gone, then it's unpardonable, to--to blaspheme that. And when He comes..." He, which is not a thought, now, it is a Person. He is a personal pronoun. He is a Person. "And when He comes, He will not pardon your transgressions for that. See? He will absolutely do the works that I do. He will continue My ministry. And He will teach you these things that I have taught you, and will show you things to come." See?

[chocolateismybestfriend]

I dont understand how one can be saved and not be a predestinated seed.

:confused:

[Angelo]

I believe they are those that will be judged according to their works, and will be given eternal life during the White Throne judgment.

[joris]

I believe they are those that will be judged according to their works, and will be given eternal life during the White Throne judgment.no, judgement is not for us -- romans 8:1 (and others)
I think Jesus said something like that too, though I can't find it just now

[joris]

Angelo -- I'm sorry I see what you mean now I think;
I suppose you meant, being saved and not be a predestinated seed = saved without being christian :)

[Jezz]

I believe they are those that will be judged according to their works, and will be given eternal life during the White Throne judgment.

Does that make them not predestinated though? They're not predestinated to be Bride but they're still predesinated to be saved aren't they?

[Angelo]

Does that make them not predestinated though? They're not predestinated to be Bride but they're still predesinated to be saved aren't they?
I don't think they are predestinated. Predestination is God's grace provided for the elect bride and the elective prerogative decided by Him from before the foundation of the world. The basis of the bride's salvation is not according to works but upon the basis of God's foreknowledge on them and sovereignty. Whereas, the saved, that will be granted eternal life in the final judgment is according to works with the qualification that their names are not blotted out of the Book of Life.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Jezz]

Mmm I don't know and as Message search is down at the moment and the only scriptures I can think of that pertain to the foolish virgin are the one you just mentioned and the one where Jesus talks about people being friends to the Bride. So I'll have to be patient and wait for an answer from the Lord :)

A side question, what do you consider to be the "works" that they get judged by? I know some people think its whether they have lived a good Christian life or not but I think it's more than that because plenty of people who live a good Christian life will take on the mark of the Beast in the end time whether they know it or not.

[Angelo]

I apologize. Let me correct myself.

They (saved) were also predestinated.

Matthew 25:34-35

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 naked and ye clothed me: I was sick, and and ye visisted me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


They shall receive their reward by doing good to the bride, and by doing so, they have done it unto Him unknowingly.

[JoeC]

Predestination is God's grace provided for the elect bride and the elective prerogative decided by Him from before the foundation of the world....they [sic] that will be granted eternal life in the final judgment are [sic] according to works with the qualification that their names are not blotted out of the Book of Life.

I don't think your theology is right there. While there are different elections (elect Bride, etcetera), all those who are saved are predestinated (give me some time t get some scriptures on that).

As far as those who are to be judged according to their works, it's my understanding that they will be those who were before the time of Christ and those who were good to God's people but never themselves got saved.


*note: [sic] indicates a grammatical revision inside a quote.

[Angelo]

That is correct Joe. I was only thinking about Romans 8:29-30 which speaks about the bride when I qouted that. I should have referred also to Matt 25:34-35 which directly answers the question of Sis Chocolate.

[marichino_freedom]

So let me see if i have this straight:

Illigitamate children (through no fault of their own) were born from sin, but can indeed be saved. However, their parents are the ones who answer for the illigitamacy. But, if for instance the parent(s) come to the Lord long after the child, such as myself, is born, can they be saved still? Or, if, like my mother, they were christians to begin with, knowingly committed sin and had a child; can they still be saved if later on down the line he/she accepts the sin that had been committed is truly sorry for it, and accepts God fully into their life again?

just curious

[HotShot53]

So let me see if i have this straight:

Illigitamate children (through no fault of their own) were born from sin, but can indeed be saved. However, their parents are the ones who answer for the illigitamacy. But, if for instance the parent(s) come to the Lord long after the child, such as myself, is born, can they be saved still? Or, if, like my mother, they were christians to begin with, knowingly committed sin and had a child; can they still be saved if later on down the line he/she accepts the sin that had been committed is truly sorry for it, and accepts God fully into their life again?

just curious

I see no reason why if they repent they couldn't be forgiven... as was said before, the only unpardonable sin mentioned in the Bible is to blaspheme the Holy Ghost.

[becalive]

28-1 Why is it not being done today? It's hybrid, ******* children, mixed up. It don't--it's a mule; it don't know what it believes. A mule don't know who his daddy is, who his mama is. He don't... He's no pedigree; there's nothing to him. He's a illegitimate creature.
That's the way any person that claims to believe God and don't believe His Word will take a denominational creed and breed it with the Word. See, you're not of God; you're dead. You can't be dead and alive at the same time. So even the Word of God don't even grow. You're just playing the part of a hypocrite. Let that go for bishop, priest, cardinal or whoever it might be. That's right. It's got to be the Word or you're dead, just a illegitimate child. And God's Word... God part won't grow. You might grow in the same field as we're getting to directly, but you--you're sure not in the fold. It won't grow.
-The Spoken Word is the Original Seed (62-0318M)

[God'schild]

I have one question on this..

My sister got pragent before she got married but only had my neice after she got married.

Both her and her husband asked God to forgive them of that act
will my niece be able to enter into heaven?? Can she be saved??
:confused: :confused:

[JoeC]

I believe that when Brother Branham was speaking of illigitimate children, he was speaking in the spiritual sense (denominations and what-all). Just look at the context of those scriptures.

[joris]

I believe that when Brother Branham was speaking of illigitimate children, he was speaking in the spiritual sense (denominations and what-all). Just look at the context of those scriptures.!!!very true amen!!!

[already bought]

i never thougth of it that way. I have to check that out.

[already bought]

I have one question on this..

My sister got pragent before she got married but only had my neice after she got married.

Both her and her husband asked God to forgive them of that act
will my niece be able to enter into heaven?? Can she be saved??
:confused: :confused:

on thing to remember is that they were ingaded before she even moved out of the house. We just talked about it. And Brother Branham says when you promis your life to someone you are married so there for I believe that she is not illagedimate. The saramony is only a public stament. Thats all.

[joris]

on thing to remember is that they were ingaded before she even moved out of the house. We just talked about it. And Brother Branham says when you promis your life to someone you are married so there for I believe that she is not illagedimate. The saramony is only a public stament. Thats all. he did? that's great!!
maybe I get to like him after all :D

[God'schild]

he did? that's great!!
maybe I get to like him after all :D


Uhh??? Explain please

what did you mean by that???:confused: :confused:

[joris]

Uhh??? Explain please

what did you mean by that???:confused: :confused:like... the date of marriage is a public thing; the promise I belong to you and you belong to me for the rest of our lives, it's a private thing (now not that I wouldn't want till after that public thing, but... well ;)) does it at all make sence to you? I've been thinking about stuff like that as it's been topic on some other forum too...

[God'schild]

Yes now it makes sense.....

thank you for clearing that:)

[joris]

Can she be saved??
:confused: :confused:I think a bible quote is the best answer.
John3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
It doesn't say, "whosoever believed, except those that were born as illigitimate children"
(This also shows Branham's quotes can't possible be about the natural, illigitimate children.)

[Nate]

Touchy question. If on the one hand, my faith is correct, then the prophet's wrong about something. If the prophet's right, then I'm [messed up] anyway.

Yay for me.

[JoeC]

Let's just revisit the quote for reference:

28-1 Why is it not being done today? It's hybrid, ******* children, mixed up. It don't--it's a mule; it don't know what it believes. A mule don't know who his daddy is, who his mama is. He don't... He's no pedigree; there's nothing to him. He's a illegitimate creature.
That's the way any person that claims to believe God and don't believe His Word will take a denominational creed and breed it with the Word. See, you're not of God; you're dead. You can't be dead and alive at the same time. So even the Word of God don't even grow. You're just playing the part of a hypocrite. Let that go for bishop, priest, cardinal or whoever it might be. That's right. It's got to be the Word or you're dead, just a illegitimate child. And God's Word... God part won't grow. You might grow in the same field as we're getting to directly, but you--you're sure not in the fold. It won't grow.
-The Spoken Word is the Original Seed (62-0318M)
Even assuming that Brother Branham is speaking in the natural (and I don't believe he is), just look at it. He's alluding to verses like 1 Tim 5:6, speaking of the "woman whose liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth."

We all are. Until we repent. Sure, an illegitimate child is born under a curse, just as we all are born under a curse for being spiritually illegitimate by the act of Eve in the Garden.

But that's why we have the Blood. It atones for all sin... whether it was us who comitted it or us who were born under it.

[Nate]

Touchy question. If on the one hand, my faith is correct, then the prophet's wrong about something. If the prophet's right, then I'm [messed up] anyway.

Yay for me.
Censorship [is cool]. Especially when it changes the entire meaning. I'd have rather you just deleted it than [mess up] the intention behind what I posted.

I think this is one instance where Brother Branham is wrong. Notice that he said "I don't see how". I'm not going to twist what he meant to say as anything other than the natural. He meant that illigitimate children couldn't go in the rapture. And if that's true, then what's the point? Why bother with a God who can't save, sanctify, and fill with the Holy Ghost, someone who's parents messed things up for them?
I mean, that's what you're really saying, isn't it? "God can't take you in the rapture because you had [not so good] parents."
If the sins of the father are visited on the child, then why wasn't brother Branham a drunkard, criminal, and murderer?
If children aren't in God's plan, then humanity itself is doomed anyway, and Christ's blood is of no effect. By your traditions you nullify the word of God.
If you really believe that Jesus's blood can wash away all sin, and hide your iniquities from the Almighty, then why would the Bride be limited to only to children of good parents of good parents of good parents of good parents? It doesn't make sense.

If my faith is correct, then Brother Branham was wrong about something, and if Brother Branham was right, then why bother?

[BroTrevor]

My previous post (http://yqnews.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35761&postcount=6) shoudl be reviewed again if this topic must indeed be brought up again.

Hopefully it will still answer Nate's question, quoted below

[quote=Nate]If my faith is correct, then Brother Branham was wrong about something, and if Brother Branham was right, then why bother?[/url]

You only list 2 possibilities, perhaps there's a third?

Because GOD loved any of us have hope.
Because GOD loved.

Not any other reason. Can you then dictate to God how He should love? I know, let's just create a God for ourselves that loves without any law...without any punishments, without any - anything else we don't like.

It's God's choice ultimately.

That being said too... please re-read my previous post. Perhaps there's MORE to the subject that just the quote or two referrenced, and before we take into our hands to decide whether the vindicated prophet of God, (seventh church age messenger) was just flat out wrong or not, perhaps we should study and pray about it.

Because ultimately, this issue is completely irrelevant. If you love God simply because he is going to take you to Heaven, you don't really love Him anyway.

Nate, let's PM on the censorship thing.

[Babyruth]

The quote that Joe posted clears it up, at least to me. In that quote, Bro. Branham talks about a person and their relationship with God, obviously spiritually. The illegitimate child part is spiritually speaking, and I don't feel I'm misinterpreting it at all. Which would mean, that Bro. Branham was not in fact wrong, but correct, in saying you can't be a half-Christian and be alive, spiritually speaking, and if you are a half-Christian, then you are not really a full Christian, but an illegitimate Christian. That's how I interpreted it, not by taking any of it to an extreme interpretation.

And what Joe said, makes sense. Every single person is born in sin, shaped in iniquity, comes into the world speaking lies. The Bible says that, and so does Bro. Branham. But God, rich in grace and mercy, accepts us as His children, because we really are, and forgives and forgets all about our past. We had nothing to do with the fact we were born in sin, shaped in iniquity, and came into the world speaking lies. Thus, we have nothing to do with the fact that maybe, we were born a physically illegitimate child. But if we accept Christ into our hearts, are born again and receive the Holy Ghost, then we are recognized as a child of God, and no longer anything that we were in the past. That takes care of the illegitimate child part for me. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jezz]

But the quote that Bro T posted is definately talking about the physical. In that quote Brother Branham says that he can't believe that God would have allowed a member of his Bride to be an illegitimate child, although they could still be saved. He then goes on to say the reason they can be saved still is because of the blood of Jesus Christ whereas before it would have taken ten generations to come back from that one sin.

[marichino_freedom]

so basically i wont be going in the rapture, then......

[joris]

Because ultimately, this issue is completely irrelevant.it's not at all irrelevant; maybe to you, if you are so lucky as that your parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents, up to four (or ten? what was it?) never sinned sexually (a doubtfull assumption)
Now, I know my parents sinned sexually (though what do you expect, they dropped out from the traditional churches where there parents went, and they're disregarding God), and... well that is not directly about me (not saying that that didn't bring curse, not only over that brother, but over the family as a whole)

[joris]

so basically i wont be going in the rapture, then...... :( I don't at all believe that. I believe that's dependent on your heart towards God, not dependent on whether your parents sinned sexually

[joris]

Because ultimately, this issue is completely irrelevant. If you love God simply because he is going to take you to Heaven, you don't really love Him anyway.love is fruit of the spirit. It only means you aren't a full-grown christian, if you don't have that perfect love, yet.
Jesus didn't reject Peter for not (yet) having such perfect love. You can read about that in John 21. (though you need a bit of knowledge about the two different words, both translated as "love" in English I'm sure branham preached about that? It's been mentioned a couple of times in preachings in local church, here)

[BroTrevor]

For those among us that feel that this is somehow unfair of God these days.

Remember that it wasn't the kids fault back in the old testament days either, nor was it his kids fault, or his kids either, but none of them were aloud to come into the congregation.

Now... please... HEAR ME!!!

Don't make emotional decisions or get in a tizzy over something bro Branham said in ONE QUOTE!!!

There's alot more Bible, there's the chapter in Ezekiel to consider, and there's the revelation of the Holy Spirit that is needed to make this come alive to each one of us.

On whether it's irrelevant to me personally or not, it's true, I wasn't born out of wedlock, and I'm pretty certain my parents weren't, but I must say, I have no idea from 4 - 10 generations how things went. HOWEVER, I still maintain that EVEN IF I WERE, I would still love God the same way I do now. The price he paid was too great. The love He showed was too awesome. I deserve Hell. If I'm at the least saved from that, rapture or no, I'll love Him with all that it is me.

So again, to people that deserve Hell anyway, making the rapture or not just gets irrelevant in how you are going to love God, and serve Him anyway.

[FreeAtLast]

I´d like to quote again the quote Bro. Trevor quoted before:

QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.2_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0823E
1035-Q-308 308. Dear Brother Branham, if a baby is born of a--out of wedlock, can this child ever be saved or go in the rapture?
Saved? Why sure, I believe the child could be... The child can't help what's been done. That is true. But I... About going in the rapture... Saved, I'd say, "Yes." But in the rapture it's a predestinated seed that goes in the rapture. And I can't believe that adultery was a predestinated seed. You understand? See? I believe the people can--the baby can be saved; it has no--no rights of its own. It's a awful act and things.
But now, in the Old Testament when a baby was born a ******* child, it could not even enter the congregation of the Lord for ten generations, four hundred and something years, that curse was so bad. Just think of that. A innocent baby, its great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren, just think, the baby's great, great, great, ten great grandchildren could not even come in the congregation of God. That's right.
But you see, there was nothing there strong enough to forgive that sin. The blood of the Old Testament did not forgive sins; it covered sins. But the Blood of Jesus Christ divorces it. That's different now. When the Blood of Jesus Christ comes in, it's the different.

I am not trying to interpret the prophet but to me it comes across like he is thinking about the answer to that question while he starts talking. To me the end of that answer matters!

There (in the old testament) was nothing strong enough to forgive that sin….
But when the Blood of Jesus Christ comes in, it´s different!

1 John 1: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin.

Not trying to be funny, but I always thought that also only a predestinated seed can be saved to begin with. Or did I get this wrong?

And people that make the rapture are those that are not only saved but have received the Holy Ghost.

1. Corinthians 6:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

THANK GOD FOR CALVARY - the precious blood of Jesus cleanseth us from ALL sin!!! Wether it be our parent´s sin or sins we´ve committed ourselves.
In the old testament it wasn´t only the children that could not enter the congregation of the Lord but of course those that have actually committed that sin were put out and killed!
Now according to 1. Corinthians 6 some of the saints were such BUT they were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord and by the Spirit of God!

I believe I will meet those saints before the rapture takes place and then we´ll be caught up together in the air.

According to the bible there is only one thing that can never be forgiven: Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

If it wasn´t for the blood NONE of us would make it (even if we are born out of holy wedlock and our great-great-great-grandfathers too!)

[vpiper]

this sounds like people are trying to cast judgment, that's God's place and only God, not Bro Branham can decide who goes in the Rapture.

I'm glad it's not me that has to decide.

[Babyruth]

I'm not in an uproar, but I'm in agreement with FreeAtLast and Bro. T. Something Bro. Lonny Jenkins said a couple weeks ago that I really liked:

This is the very first age that we got to watch God train a prophet. With the other ones, God took "thus saith the Lord" that they spoke and put it into the Bible. But with Bro. Branham, we saw God talking, and we saw man talking. We can't make every Word "thus saith the Lord." But, the Message is perfect. Don't worry about every Word, stick with the Message.

[joris]

I am not trying to interpret the prophet but to me it comes across like he is thinking about the answer to that question while he starts talking. To me the end of that answer matters!:confused: I thought you guys claimed every word coming from the mouth of this man was God speaking Himself?
You can't just disregard a statement like that if that was truly God speaking Himself...
Note that I'm not (yet) that far as to call branham a perfect mouthpiece of God

This is the very first age that we got to watch God train a prophet. With the other ones, God took "thus saith the Lord" that they spoke and put it into the Bible. But with Bro. Branham, we saw God talking, and we saw man talking. We can't make every Word "thus saith the Lord." But, the Message is perfect. Don't worry about every Word, stick with the Message.
Though I can't say I dislike that way of thinking

[Nate]

:confused: I thought you guys claimed every word coming from the mouth of this man was God speaking Himself?

Anyone claiming that is crazy. And when you get down to it, there really are a lot of crazies "in the message". Some people go so far as to claim Bro. B. was Christ himself in this day. There's a reason the Branham following has been called a cult.
You can go to some churches and you'll here more quotes out of message books than you will verses of the Bible.
Yes, Joris, there are very decieved people who follow Brother Branham instead of Jesus. It's... You'll have that though.
People hung on the words of Paul and Apollo, Peter and John, Wesley, Luther. It just happens.
That's why you test the spirits. You have to be discerning.

[FreeAtLast]

:confused: I thought you guys claimed every word coming from the mouth of this man was God speaking Himself?
You can't just disregard a statement like that if that was truly God speaking Himself...

Joris, I´ve never claimed that. I believe he was a vindicated prophet bringing us back to the bible! But I never said that I believed that EVERY word coming from his mouth was God speaking Himself! How could I? There is only one man that was God and man at the same time: The Lord Jesus Christ.

Besides this I don´t think I was disregarding anything. Maybe you ought to read my post again.

[TommyLewis]

I dont believe every word he spoke was Thus Sayeth The Lord...But he was God's vindicated prophet...

As for the illegitimate children, I have my thoughts, but I don't believe this is an appropriate place to share them...

Questions like these are part of why God gives us Holy Ghost filled fathers...if you don't have one, ask your pastor...If you don't have a Holy Ghost filled pastor, you need to find one...

[Jezz]

Questions like these are part of why God gives us Holy Ghost filled fathers...if you don't have one, ask your pastor...If you don't have a Holy Ghost filled pastor, you need to find one...

Amen to that!

Five fold ministry is there for a reason after all. Lean not to thine own understanding but to His.

[Babyruth]

This is the very first age that we got to watch God train a prophet. With the other ones, God took "thus saith the Lord" that they spoke and put it into the Bible. But with Bro. Branham, we saw God talking, and we saw man talking. We can't make every Word "thus saith the Lord." But, the Message is perfect. Don't worry about every Word, stick with the Message.

Bro. Lonny said what you all did in this quote.

[vpiper]

Bro. Lonny said what you all did in this quote.


you mean "what you all did is in this quote"?

[Babyruth]

you mean "what you all did is in this quote"?
No, sorry, I guess I worded that weird. What I meant was what everyone said about not every word Bro. Branham spoke being "thus saith the Lord" and how some people get too worried about that, and how Holy-Ghost filled ministers know best. That's what I meant. Nothing bad. :)

[vpiper]

some people look at Bro Branham the same way other people view Jesus.

In the World some people think Jesus is just a nice guy who gave some good advice. other's see him a a prophet and just that , others know the truth that he was God in flesh.

now about Branham he was a prophet and God spoke through him. Some people think all he said was thus saith the Lord, but as it was pointed out above he said not view it that way.

[Angellica]

I was listening to this tape last night, and Bro Branham said that he doubt's if 12 people would make the rapture.

TWELVE...

TWELVE!

I believe God to be in the minority in this day.. but 12! wow... that sets you down and makes you think.

Anyway.. .thats a lil off topic, but what he said after that is my question :

STRAIT.IS.THE.GATE_ JEFF.IN CH 35-66 SUNDAY_ 59-0301M
100 You say, "Preacher, you mean to tell me you doubt a dozen out of this millions and four billion people in the world?" I doubt whether there'll be a dozen that'll make the rapture. Think of it. I'm telling you what Jesus said here in the Gospel. Think of it.
What's it got to? Because the immorality got amongst the people, illegitimate children started being born, that blots them out

---------------------

Does the last statement mean that illegitmate children are blotted out?
Or does it mean the people who created these illegitmate children are blotted out?
or does it mean both?

what exactly is "blotted out" anyway?

Let me start by giving you the meaning of blotted out. According to the Encarta dictionary it is a grammatical word indicating that somebody or something is away from a place or removed from somewhere.So it means the illegitimate children are removed from I think God's economy. What I've always thought Brother Branham was saying here was a spiritual application. We are the bride of Jesus and he doesn't want us to commit adultery spiritually. Likke mixing his word with man made creeds. If we do then we'd later bear illegitimate children, a generation which knows not God. And these would be blotted out since they don't know God.
"Fault my inexperience with the word here" but that's what I always thought. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[BroTrevor]

This thread has gone off topic of sorts.

Technically of course, to judge the validity of Bro Branham's statements on illigitimate Children, one has to judge the worth and weight of what Bro Branham said. However, this is a thread on Illigitmate Children, NOT a thread on how far do we take a prophets statements.

I also encourage everyone to remember, that seeking a pastor for wise counsel is excellent and I encourage you to do so, but for those of you that don't take Bro Branham's word on it and disagree with others for believing it just like he said it, remember that if you blindly take your pastors advice (because "Holy-Ghost filled ministers know best"), you are doing the same thing, just with a different man.

1) Read the Bible
2) Study what your Church Age Messenger said.
3) Pray lots
4) Ask a Godly Minister
5) Read James 1: 5,6
6) Get Revelation
7) Praise God.

(this may require less time on-line, less time gaming, less time chatting, less time watching movies, and even less time hanging with friends. Of course, who really finds it important enough to do all THAT?)


Closing thoughts, and this thread will be closed tonight.


(P.S. I don't exactly understand how Bro Jenkins thinks we can view the message as perfect without looking at every word, but I THINK what he's trying to say is take the WHOLE thing, don't just go building a doctrine around one quote. I'm in agreement with that.)

[joris]

P.S. I don't exactly understand how Bro Jenkins thinks we can view the message as perfect without looking at every word, but I THINK what he's trying to say is take the WHOLE thing, don't just go building a doctrine around one quote. I'm in agreement with that.as long as you aren't ripping stuff out of context, taking a statement to mean what it's saying should not be a problem. You seem to be especially good at doing that, so...
The problem is, these statements reject many sincere christians (message believers, among others).

[blessed]

This may sound harsh but if we spend more time doing this

1) Read the Bible
2) Study what your Church Age Messenger said.
3) Pray lots
4) Ask a Godly Minister
5) Read James 1: 5,6
6) Get Revelation
7) Praise God.

(this may require less time on-line, less time gaming, less time chatting, less time watching movies, and even less time hanging with friends. Of course, who really finds it important enough to do all THAT?)



And less time on online, gaming, chatting, watching movies etc.. we would all be better of.. some of us spend to much time online... and it is evident by some of the stuff I read here! I have been guilty of that to.. but now I am trying to spend more of my spare time in the Word and less online.

[JoeC]

Here, here. I never meant this to become a place of idle chatter or doctrinal debate. Let's not let it ever become such. If the forums aren't doing something good for the future, they're not worth my while - or anybody else's.

Brother Trevor beat me to it, but I emphatically recommend you each speak to your pastor about the issues on this thread if they are greatly concerning you. This subject is erring more and more into the local shephard's domain and I would just as soon see everyone drop the subject. It seems no longer expedient to engage in what is becoming a discussion without a final word (1 Tim 1:4).

The final word on this topic WILL NOT be found on these forums or from speaking with your peers. The final word can be found through studying the Bible to show yourself approved (2 Tim 2:15), seeking wise counsel (Prov. 24:6), and earnest prayer (Matt 7:11 & James 1:5).

Ultimately, the final word is found in a personal revelation imparted to you by God Himself. That concludes this thread. Thank you.