The Godhead...

[AndrewMichael]

This is something that has been hard for me to really get, and I'm probably not the first one.

I don't believe in either the oneness or the trinitarian.

God cannot be separated into different people, and yet Jesus couldn't be His own Father. So let me check on my view that I believe comes from the scripture and the Message.

God is a person. He has many attributes. So when He had the attribute of Almighty God, Judger, Omnipotent one, then that is where the pillar of fire (or cloud) came from. Also, He had the attribute of a savior, and that is where Christ the Savoir came from. An attribute of comforter and friend, and that produced the Holy Spirit. We believe God is one, no doubt about that, so is the only difference between the truth and trinity is making God's attributes separte people? And the oneness is making all the attributes of God the same?

I believe we are to be in the balance of the two sides, so if there is something I am missing, I would like to know.

[God'schild]

This is something that has been hard for me to really get, and I'm probably not the first one.

I don't believe in either the oneness or the trinitarian.

God cannot be separated into different people, and yet Jesus couldn't be His own Father. So let me check on my view that I believe comes from the scripture and the Message.

God is a person. He has many attributes. So when He had the attribute of Almighty God, Judger, Omnipotent one, then that is where the pillar of fire (or cloud) came from. Also, He had the attribute of a savior, and that is where Christ the Savoir came from. An attribute of comforter and friend, and that produced the Holy Spirit. We believe God is one, no doubt about that, so is the only difference between the truth and trinity is making God's attributes separte people? And the oneness is making all the attributes of God the same?

I believe we are to be in the balance of the two sides, so if there is something I am missing, I would like to know.

That's hard.

If only i could remember what what pastor said about the Godhead in Bible Study many months ago. When we were still Studying the "Christian walk"

Here is a scripture that might help you understand
John 1:1

[joris]

uhmm... now let's see whether I can put this under words now...
Jesus... the one we mean by that, is a human; for clarity, Jesus from Nazareth (remember, many boys were named "Jesus" those days)

Luk 1.30 Then the angel told Mary, “Don't be afraid! God is pleased with you, and you will have a son. His name will be Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of God Most High. The Lord God will make him king, as his ancestor David was. 33 He will rule the people of Israel forever, and his kingdom will never end.”
34 Mary asked the angel, “How can this happen? I am not married!”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come down to you, and God's power will come over you. So your child will be called the holy Son of God.see? Mary became mother; who was the father? This part says, Holy Spirit is the father

It's the Holy Spirit... while living, the Holy Spirit, also known as Spirit of Christ... like you and I, we have a spirit, Jesus had one also; it's the Holy Spirit; Jesus telling people He was there even already when Abraham was still alive here... it's, the Holy Spirit always was there

that's basically the idea branham wrote down about this; I hope this all is correctly, and I hope it helps you see... anyway... pray for revelation :)

[BroTrevor]

Tell me, if you can...

Is the a difference between Jesus and Melchisedec??

That'll help... really it will.

[joris]

this has some on it...
http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=712

[God'schild]

Tell me, if you can...

Is the a difference between Jesus and Melchisedec??

That'll help... really it will.


NO i don't believe there is a difference. Melchisedec and Jesus are the same person.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

[joris]

NO i don't believe there is a difference. Melchisedec and Jesus are the same person.I'm not really sure, but I think so... hebrews 7 writes about Melchisedec; also there is psalm 110 and Genesis 14

[BroTrevor]

NO i don't believe there is a difference. Melchisedec and Jesus are the same person.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

I think there is a difference. Anyone?

I mean to say... who they are may not be different... but there is a difference between the two. That difference kind of goes along with Godhead I think.

[God'schild]

what's the difference??

Wasn't Melchisedec the one that stayed with Abram???

[Jezz]

I think there is a difference. Anyone?

I mean to say... who they are may not be different... but there is a difference between the two. That difference kind of goes along with Godhead I think.

20-5 THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are just titles. They are not names. That is why we baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, for that is a name, not a title. It is the name of those titles, just like you take a new born baby who is a son and name him. Baby is what it is, son is the title, then you name him, John Henry Brown. You just don't baptize in 'Jesus Name'. There are thousands of Jesuses in the world and have been even before Jesus, our Saviour. But there is only one of them born the Christ, "Lord Jesus Christ".

21-1 THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
People talk about Jesus being the Eternal Son of God. Now isn't that a contradiction? Whoever heard of a 'Son' being eternal? Sons have beginnings, but that which is eternal never had a beginning. He is the Eternal God (Jehovah) manifested in the flesh.


If thats not the difference, I don't know what is

[God'schild]

i stand corrected.

thanks for correcting me.

[BroTrevor]

I believe the difference between Melchisedec and Jesus was that God created a temple to step in out of ash...a created grown man and "stepped in".

Jesus, was born through "natural" means even tho God created the fertilized egg and placed it into Mary.

Jesus would have had his "own" spirit, just like you and I. Bro Branham said he recieved the Holy Spirit. So, Jesus (being tempted just like us) had to have his own spirit, and recieve the Holy Spirit as well. That's a big distinction if you ask me.

But Jesus recieved the fullness of the Godhead bodily, the entire Holy Spirit, we have the Holy Spirit in measure. SO there's a difference between us.

What Spirit was that? It was the logos that was created when God said "let there be light".

This is pretty deep stuff.

To say that the logos in some way is different than God is innacurate. Of course you look at John 1 (in the beginning was the Word..the Word was God... the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us) So its how God is manifesting Himself.

The trinitarians and Jehovah witnesses have God and Jesus having conversations.. Jesus "helping" God create...etc. Praying to God the son the same as praying to God the father?? I never figured that out that...

So really Bro Branham does a fantastic job of explaining all this in either the Church Age Book, or the message "Unveiling of God"

I guess one difference that I see, is that when Jesus was "Born" you now have a "physical" entity of sorts for God, where you didn't necessarily have that before...but a lamb had to come into the world for sacrafice..

now He sits "at the right hand of God" ... but that doesn't necessarily mean God is sitting on the throne and Jesus is sitting next to Him, The place of Jesus as the lamb of God is the only way you will get to God, all GOd's power runs through that channel, so that is why Jesus is at the right hand of God.

whew... I think that's enough from me for now.. .don't want to monopolize things... lots to think on and ponder as we await revelation from the Holy Spirit to quicken this to us.

[Unregistered]

... so is the only difference between the truth and trinity is making God's attributes separte people? And the oneness is making all the attributes of God the same?

I believe so that that is how they see it: Trinitarians claim that these three attributes co-exist, while Oneness believe that Jesus, is also the Father.

[Angelo]

Sorry about that ^ post.

Now, the true Oneness of Jesus and the Father is that: The fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Him. They were one because the Father dwelt in him, the same manner the Holy Spirit dwells in us. Therefore manifesting the Father that was in Him.

But that oneness does not make Jesus the Father because they are two different persons.

[God'schild]

confused very confused

Help me understand

[Jezz]

confused very confused

Help me understand

There is one God who had a Son. Thats the be all and end all of Godhead. Every quote you read, every scripture you read, every tape you listen to, remember that fact.

The Son is God in one way, that way being that the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt within him. The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person.

Hope that doesn't confuse you any more :)

[chocolateismybestfriend]

THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
People talk about Jesus being the Eternal Son of God. Now isn't that a contradiction? Whoever heard of a 'Son' being eternal? Sons have beginnings, but that which is eternal never had a beginning. He is the Eternal God (Jehovah) manifested in the flesh.

21-2 THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
In St. John's Gospel it says,

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us."
He was the True and Faithful Witness to the Father's eternal Word. He was a Prophet and could say what the Father bade Him say. He said, "My Father is in Me". That is what Jesus the tabernacle said, "My Father is in Me".

21-3 THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
God has many titles: 'Our Righteousness', and 'Our Peace', and 'Ever Present', and 'Father', and 'Son', and 'Holy Ghost'; but He has only one human name and that name is Jesus.

21-4 THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
Don't be confused because he has three offices or that He has a threefold manifestation. On earth He was a Prophet; in heaven He is the Priest; and coming back to earth, He is King of Kings. "He That Was"--That is Jesus, the Prophet. "He That Is"--That is He, the High Priest, making intercession--One Who can be touched with the feelings of our infirmities. "Which Is to Come"--That is the coming King. On earth He was the Word--the Prophet. Moses said of Him, "The Lord your God will raise up a Prophet like unto me, and it will come to pass if they don't hear the words of that Prophet they will be cut off from amongst the people".

21-5 THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
Notice these facts about Jesus. On earth He was Prophet, Lamb, and Son. This did not make Him three. These were but manifestations or offices of the One Person, Jesus.

-------------



I hope i am not out of place in saying this... I do not mean to preach/teach.

God is God. He had a son.
The son is not God. Sons have beginnings, its impossible, you cannot beget yourself, you have to come from somewhere!
The son is not a part of the Godhead, the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) is simply different roles all played by God, only God is in the Godhead.
When God indwelt his Son they became one, thats a role God played through his Son. It's the same person all the time, making himself manifest through different roles
Bro Branham says dont get confused about the different roles/attributes/parts as they are all the different offices of God.


--------------------
LORD.SHOW.US.THE.FATHER.AND.IT.SUFFICETH.US_ CHICAGO.IL MONDAY_ 53-0907A
E-96 Now, my parents and my both--before me were Catholic. But brother, you see there's not much Catholic left in me as the triune beings. That's right. Yes, sir. They believed in the Eternal Sonship, or there's three actual individual being: God the Father, an old man with long white beard; God, the Son, a middle age man; and the Holy Ghost was a mascot boy like. There's no such things. There's only one God. And I different agree with the organization of Pentecost that calls the Oneness like your finger is one. That's wrong. Absolutely, it's wrong.
God... Jesus couldn't have been His Own Father, and if God is a Man, then Jesus was born sexual desire and not virgin birth. That settles the whole thing. You see? If He's one like your finger's one, then what? Then He was His Own daddy. How could He have been? That's wrong. He had a Father, Jesus did.

LORD.SHOW.US.THE.FATHER.AND.IT.SUFFICETH.US_ CHICAGO.IL MONDAY_ 53-0907A
E-98 Now, then here comes down, the next is the Sonship. Then the Holy Spirit. That's the reason that Matthew said, "Baptize them in the Name of the Father, in the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Sure. It's the same God moving right down through these three dispensations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not three different individual beings, but one being in three different manifestations. Hallelujah. Glory.

[joris]

I believe so that that is how they see it: Trinitarians claim that these three attributes co-existyes; when taught that, you can get confusions like, if I pray, to who should I pray, is it Father, is it Son? is it okay to pray to Holy Spirit? who to worship? what if I worship one less than the other? stuff like that... really, seeing as seperate individuals (yeah I've been trying and telling people, try not to see as three parts, it's one God...)

though Jesus says pray to Father in my name so reading bible really carefully helps a bit on at least some of those confusions ;)

Also, some book on Holy Spirit, the writer could not do but admit Jesus needed the Holy Spirit, like, Jesus was depending on Holy Spirit, which seemed to bring all out of balance, bringing all to the Holy Spirit; Father always seemed somewhere so far away; see? (and at some point I learned of how branham wrote of this ;))

[joris]

Jesus would have had his "own" spirit, just like you and I. Bro Branham said he recieved the Holy Spirit. So, Jesus (being tempted just like us) had to have his own spirit, and recieve the Holy Spirit as well. That's a big distinction if you ask me.Hmm, I thought Spirit of Christ meant Jesus' spirit, it was the Holy Spirit directly... I find it confusing; though maybe it's like "Spirit of Elia", really indicating some ministry given by the Holy Spirit? :confused:

now He sits "at the right hand of God" ... but that doesn't necessarily mean God is sitting on the throne and Jesus is sitting next to Him, The place of Jesus as the lamb of God is the only way you will get to God, all GOd's power runs through that channel, so that is why Jesus is at the right hand of God.This has been confusing to me too; it still is I guess.

acts7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.I still don't know, what exactly did Stephen see? He sure saw Jesus, and "the glory of God", and Jesus on the right hand of God...
Anyway, being on the right hand, it means authority; Father, He gave all authority to Jesus (though I seem to remember, at some point Jesus will - in free will - give it to Father Himself again?)

[BroTrevor]

Hmm, I thought Spirit of Christ meant Jesus' spirit, it was the Holy Spirit directly... I find it confusing; though maybe it's like "Spirit of Elia", really indicating some ministry given by the Holy Spirit? :confused:

This has been confusing to me too; it still is I guess.


Ok, The difference of the Jesus' spirit and the Holy Spirit.

When you are born, you are 3 things (Body, spirit, soul) The same with Jesus. However, ALL that God was he POURED INTO CHRIST. So just like it's just like you when you recieve the Holy Spirit. That's the difference there. Melchisedec was a created from dust body that God temporarily stepped into...just a form that God could work in. So he wasn't necessarily Body, spirit, soul.

Now, when people refer to the "Spirit of Christ" they are probably referring to the Holy Spirit.

[joris]

Ok, The difference of the Jesus' spirit and the Holy Spirit.

When you are born, you are 3 things (Body, spirit, soul) The same with Jesus. However, ALL that God was he POURED INTO CHRIST.okay, so... there is no difference between "Jesus' spirit" and "Holy Spirit" then... I always thought that but I got just confused just now;) but... it's just two names for the same?:)
(but what then happened when Jesus was baptized, when, and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him (mat3:16) ?)

[Angelo]

I've had a discussion with a few of my brothers regarding the Godhead. A brother believes that Jesus (the flesh) is God. I tried to reprove his claim by using a bottle of water illustrating it. I told Him to imagine that God (the Father) is the water, and, Jesus (the flesh) is the bottle. Since water needs to have a container in order for you to drink it conveniently, the bottle is made as its container. Now, when you fill the bottle with water, what do we call it? A bottled water. But if you pour out the water, can we say that the bottle is water? He still can't see that the flesh of Jesus can never be God unless God dwells within Him.

[joris]

uhm...if you've been told in one way ever since you repented, and something really different comes up, it takes something to see it's upside down; it needs revelation, or at least, prayer and... investigation;
I don't know, maybe, you could help him with some of the teachings of branham, give him to read that, to shed another light on texts (uhm, is that the way to say that?); it might help right? :)

[God'schild]

There is one God who had a Son. Thats the be all and end all of Godhead. Every quote you read, every scripture you read, every tape you listen to, remember that fact.

The Son is God in one way, that way being that the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt within him. The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person.

Hope that doesn't confuse you any more :)


Wasn't the Fullness of God dwelling in Jesus??
I believe that Jesus is the son of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[FreeAtLast]

There is one God who had a Son. Thats the be all and end all of Godhead. Every quote you read, every scripture you read, every tape you listen to, remember that fact.

The Son is God in one way, that way being that the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt within him. The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person.

Hope that doesn't confuse you any more :)

That is NOT scriptural and NOT what Bro. Branham said. (unfortunately I must say again that I think that these thoughts are coming from Bro. Lee Vayle´s teaching).

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

[God'schild]

That is NOT scriptural and NOT what Bro. Branham said. (unfortunately I must say again that I think that these thoughts are coming from Bro. Lee Vayle´s teaching).

John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

AMEN AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Jesus said in John 10:30 " I and my Father are one"
I believe that
And i believe that the Fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus.

[FreeAtLast]

something else.
here is what Bro. Branham said about Jesus standing at the right hand of God:

QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.ON.HEBREWS.2_ JEFF.IN COD WEDNESDAY_ 57-1002
Now, see, God couldn't have a big right hand (See?) and Jesus standing on His right hand. The "right hand" means "the authority." See? Just for instance, if what if--if I was the full sway of the church here, I was a bishop of some sort, and Brother Neville took my place, he'd be my right hand. See, that means that he's--he would be at my right hand.


PALMERWORM.LOCUST.CANKERWORM.CATERPILLAR_ JEFF.IN V-14 N-1 SUNDAY_ 59-0823
146 The right hand of God, where the Bible said, "I looked up and seen Jesus standing at the right hand of God," Philip, or Stephen when he was stoned, don't mean that God's got a right hand, and Jesus is standing up on top of His right hand. It means that He's in the right hand of power; authority. "All powers in heavens and earth is given unto Me," said Jesus. He was in authority. God was in Christ. He's in--in Him. The Bible said, "In Him dwells the Fullness of the Godhead bodily." When you try to make three individual Gods, you're just pagan as pagan can be.

[God'schild]

if the fullness of the Godhead didn't dwell in Jesus who did it dwell in?
If Jesus wasn't part of the Godhead Who was or who is??

[FreeAtLast]

one more scripture to prove that the statement: """"The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person""" is totally wrong and contrary to God´s holy Word:

Isaiah 9:
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

[God'schild]

one more scripture to prove that the statement: """"The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person""" is totally wrong and contrary to God´s holy Word:

Isaiah 9:
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Thank you

(i would give you 100 greens if i could....)

[joris]

see... there it is, so nice :)

Isaiah 9:6For unto us a child is born ... and his name shall be called ... The everlasting Father

wait? the Son is called Father? aww, it's great, isn't it ;)

[FreeAtLast]

The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person.

Sorry that I am going so strong against this. Please do not take this personal. But I believe there lays a great danger in it; because it is contrary to the Word of God and it can mess up ppl quite a lot.
If we´d seriously believe that Jesus is not God than what´s the use of getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?

Here is what Bro. Branham says about it:

ADOPTION.2_ JEFF.IN AD.2 WEDNESDAY_ 60-0518
Now, you trinitarian brethren, I'm not wanting to hurt you, but how in the name of the good Word of God could you ever place Jesus being a separate person from God Himself? If Jesus could take another person and make Him go and die to redeem this person here, He would be an unjust being. There's only one way that God could ever do it, would be take the place Himself. And God became flesh that He might taste the pains of death, to take the sting and death away from us, that we might be redeemed by His own. That's why He will be so worshipped. Jesus was a man, sure He was. He was a man, m-a-n, borned in the virgin Mary. But the Spirit that was in Him was God without measure. In Him dwelled the fulness of the Godhead bodily. He was Jehovah-Jireh; He was Jehovah-Rapha; He was Jehovah-Manasses; He was Jehovah, our Shield, our Buckler, our Healer; He was Alpha, Omega, the Beginning and the End; He was the First, the Last; He Was, Which Is, and Shall Come; the Root and Offspring of David, the Morning Star, why, He was All-in-all. In Him dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


THE.FAITH.OF.ABRAHAM_ LA.CA WEDNESDAY_ 59-0415E
E-27 Jesus gave the remedy for the weakest of Christian to defeat the devil. When the devil met Him, why, He was God. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself." And He had all the powers of God was in Him. In Him dwelled the Fullness of the Godhead bodily.
When people today trying to get away from that and got such a place today that they try to make Christ just a philosopher or some kind of a prophet. He was more than a prophet. If He was just a prophet, we're in sin. He was either God or the greatest deceiver the world ever had. He's God.


THE.SMYRNAEAN.CHURCH.AGE_ JEFF.IN ROJC 185-227 TUESDAY_ 60-1206
147 Now, "He that believeth on Me has Eternal Life." Now, if there's only one form of Eternal Life, and you get it and we're seeking for it through Jesus Christ; that's God's Life, then when that blood cell was broke on the Son of God, and that little Jehovah that was bottled up on the inside of this man called Jesus (when in Him dwelt the Fullness of the Godhead bodily), and now when we accept that Blood for the remission of our sins, that Spirit that was on not a Man, but on God... Glory. The Bible said, "The Blood of God."
Somebody said, "You remember, don't say nothing about the Jews, 'cause He was a Jew." He wasn't a Jew. He was neither Jew nor Gentile; He was God. That's right. He was a created Blood. God made it special. It was His Own, and through that created Blood we accept it as our pardon because He died the death for us. That Blood cell broke, releases that Holy Spirit to come back on us, and now we are sons and daughters of God through a birth of the Spirit. Then the Life that was God's, which didn't have no beginning or neither will it ever has an end, is mine and yours by the grace of God in Jesus Christ. There you are.


I could give you many many more quotes; but I think this should be enough to make clear that Jesus Christ is not a seperate person but God himself.

[God'schild]

Sorry that I am going so strong against this. Please do not take this personal. But I believe there lays a great danger in it; because it is contrary to the Word of God and it can mess up ppl quite a lot.
If we´d seriously believe that Jesus is not God than what´s the use of getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?

Here is what Bro. Branham says about it:

ADOPTION.2_ JEFF.IN AD.2 WEDNESDAY_ 60-0518
Now, you trinitarian brethren, I'm not wanting to hurt you, but how in the name of the good Word of God could you ever place Jesus being a separate person from God Himself? If Jesus could take another person and make Him go and die to redeem this person here, He would be an unjust being. There's only one way that God could ever do it, would be take the place Himself. And God became flesh that He might taste the pains of death, to take the sting and death away from us, that we might be redeemed by His own. That's why He will be so worshipped. Jesus was a man, sure He was. He was a man, m-a-n, borned in the virgin Mary. But the Spirit that was in Him was God without measure. In Him dwelled the fulness of the Godhead bodily. He was Jehovah-Jireh; He was Jehovah-Rapha; He was Jehovah-Manasses; He was Jehovah, our Shield, our Buckler, our Healer; He was Alpha, Omega, the Beginning and the End; He was the First, the Last; He Was, Which Is, and Shall Come; the Root and Offspring of David, the Morning Star, why, He was All-in-all. In Him dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


THE.FAITH.OF.ABRAHAM_ LA.CA WEDNESDAY_ 59-0415E
E-27 Jesus gave the remedy for the weakest of Christian to defeat the devil. When the devil met Him, why, He was God. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself." And He had all the powers of God was in Him. In Him dwelled the Fullness of the Godhead bodily.
When people today trying to get away from that and got such a place today that they try to make Christ just a philosopher or some kind of a prophet. He was more than a prophet. If He was just a prophet, we're in sin. He was either God or the greatest deceiver the world ever had. He's God.


THE.SMYRNAEAN.CHURCH.AGE_ JEFF.IN ROJC 185-227 TUESDAY_ 60-1206
147 Now, "He that believeth on Me has Eternal Life." Now, if there's only one form of Eternal Life, and you get it and we're seeking for it through Jesus Christ; that's God's Life, then when that blood cell was broke on the Son of God, and that little Jehovah that was bottled up on the inside of this man called Jesus (when in Him dwelt the Fullness of the Godhead bodily), and now when we accept that Blood for the remission of our sins, that Spirit that was on not a Man, but on God... Glory. The Bible said, "The Blood of God."
Somebody said, "You remember, don't say nothing about the Jews, 'cause He was a Jew." He wasn't a Jew. He was neither Jew nor Gentile; He was God. That's right. He was a created Blood. God made it special. It was His Own, and through that created Blood we accept it as our pardon because He died the death for us. That Blood cell broke, releases that Holy Spirit to come back on us, and now we are sons and daughters of God through a birth of the Spirit. Then the Life that was God's, which didn't have no beginning or neither will it ever has an end, is mine and yours by the grace of God in Jesus Christ. There you are.


I could give you many many more quotes; but I think this should be enough to make clear that Jesus Christ is not a seperate person but God himself.

Thank You
I agree with you 100%
There is danger if we say Jesus isn't part of the Godhead.

( if i could i would give you 100 greens)

[God'schild]

If have to be careful what we say.........

Because Jesus said in John 10:30
"I and the Father are one"
They are not to different people. They are one person.
"God was made flesh and dwelt among us"

I agree with Freeatlast.

[HotShot53]

Freeatlast and God'sChild seem to have it covered there... I agree with them completely.

[AndrewMichael]

hmm... I understand and never claimed that Jesus wasn't God, for He had to be...

Can someone maybe tell me if what I said in the first post is wrong? Is there something I have off? If so, I think I missed it. Thanks!

[Angelo]

There is one God who had a Son. Thats the be all and end all of Godhead. Every quote you read, every scripture you read, every tape you listen to, remember that fact.

The Son is God in one way, that way being that the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt within him. The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person.


"The Son is God in one way, that way being that the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt within him."
There is nothing wrong that I see on Bro Jezz's statement. He was referring to the Son (Lord Jesus) as God, to the fact that The Fulness of the Godhead dwelt within Him. His obedience to the move of the Father within Him did show and prove that He is The Son of God, such obedience that throughout his life, his person expressed the male person of God. They are One in the sense that the Father dwelt within Him in fulness.

"The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person."
I believe when he said "Son is not God", he was referring to the flesh, which is the temple, or body. The real danger is when we look at the temple as God. God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. One question we need to consider is, why should the body of the Lord Jesus need to be glorified? And also, do we consider our body the real us?

[Angelo]

I have exhibited this preaching before at a different thread. It really helped me look at the subject at a deeper perspective. I hope it helps again somehow if you haven't heard this message before >>> Sep 6 2000 One Body One Voice - Bro. Chris Hall (http://www.happyvalleychurch.com/catalog.php?in=Sermons&search=2000)

Shut in with God in a secret place
There in the Spirit beholding His face
Gaining new power to run in this race
I love to be shut in with God.

I love that song. Thank you Lord Jesus.

God bless.

[God'schild]

hmm... I understand and never claimed that Jesus wasn't God, for He had to be...

Can someone maybe tell me if what I said in the first post is wrong? Is there something I have off? If so, I think I missed it. Thanks!

Freeatlast and I were correcting the people that were saying that Jesus "the son of God" wasn't part of the Godhead

sorry if it confused you.

[God'schild]

When Jesus Christ was here on earth, and in Him dwelled the fullness of the Godhead bodily, all the great powers of God was in His Son, Christ Jesus. For the Scripture tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. All things was delivered unto Him, though He spoke nothing but what the Father told Him. He healed no one but what He first saw being healed. For He said, "Verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing in Himself, but what He sees the Father doing." That was Saint John 5:19.

Listen. He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM. (Hallelujah.) I am Jehovah." He's Jehovah-manasses. He's Jehovah-rapha. He's, oh, and all the redemptive Names of Jehovah was in Him, and in Him dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily; there He is.

That cleary states that the Godhead bodily dwelt in Jesus.
You can't take Jesus and God and sperate them because they are one

Ethier believe everything or believe none of it.
Because if you take one word out of the bible or what God's prophets said the same shall be taken from you.(your place in the lambs book of life)
Be careful when you say that Jesus wasn't part of the Godhead. Because he was and is. The Spirit Of God was in him yes.

[FreeAtLast]

"The Son is God in one way, that way being that the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwelt within him."
There is nothing wrong that I see on Bro Jezz's statement. He was referring to the Son (Lord Jesus) as God, to the fact that The Fulness of the Godhead dwelt within Him. His obedience to the move of the Father within Him did show and prove that He is The Son of God, such obedience that throughout his life, his person expressed the male person of God. They are One in the sense that the Father dwelt within Him in fulness.

Not sure if I understand you right Angelo.
But where did you get that from? The son of God expressing the male person of God?
I don´t think it´s scriptural or what the prophet has said.
What do you mean by it anyway? I am not getting it at all.



"The Son is not God however, he is not a part of the Godhead, he is an entirely seperate person."
I believe when he said "Son is not God", he was referring to the flesh, which is the temple, or body. The real danger is when we look at the temple as God. God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. One question we need to consider is, why should the body of the Lord Jesus need to be glorified? And also, do we consider our body the real us

This I also don´t get.
The body of Jesus Christ was created by God himself. It was God´s own blood.
Since God in spirit form couldn´t redeem us He had to become flesh in order to be able to redeem us from our sinful bodies.
But we are not redeemed by some man´s blood - but by the blood of God himself. He was without sin. That´s why he had to come through a virgin (for being born into this world through the natural act of a man or woman makes us already sinful right from the start).


THE.SMYRNAEAN.CHURCH.AGE_ JEFF.IN ROJC 185-227 TUESDAY_ 60-1206
147 Now, "He that believeth on Me has Eternal Life." Now, if there's only one form of Eternal Life, and you get it and we're seeking for it through Jesus Christ; that's God's Life, then when that blood cell was broke on the Son of God, and that little Jehovah that was bottled up on the inside of this man called Jesus (when in Him dwelt the Fullness of the Godhead bodily), and now when we accept that Blood for the remission of our sins, that Spirit that was on not a Man, but on God... Glory. The Bible said, "The Blood of God."
Somebody said, "You remember, don't say nothing about the Jews, 'cause He was a Jew." He wasn't a Jew. He was neither Jew nor Gentile; He was God. That's right. He was a created Blood. God made it special. It was His own, and through that created Blood we accept it as our pardon because He died the death for us. That Blood cell broke, releases that Holy Spirit to come back on us, and now we are sons and daughters of God through a birth of the Spirit. Then the Life that was God's, which didn't have no beginning or neither will it ever has an end, is mine and yours by the grace of God in Jesus Christ. There you are.

[joris]

Because Jesus said in John 10:30
"I and the Father are one"that one exactly, it's the most troubling statement I know Jesus made; see? maybe this is a bit of a language issue, but "are" and "one" seem to be contradicting -- but I guess it may just be that;
ow, and this one:
gen1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
who exactly is "us" there?

I know these, these two texts, "trinity-oriented" christians (how to say that, otherwise? :confused:), tend to say there's some proof in there

[Jezz]

This is something that has been hard for me to really get, and I'm probably not the first one.

I don't believe in either the oneness or the trinitarian.

God cannot be separated into different people, and yet Jesus couldn't be His own Father. So let me check on my view that I believe comes from the scripture and the Message.

God is a person. He has many attributes. So when He had the attribute of Almighty God, Judger, Omnipotent one, then that is where the pillar of fire (or cloud) came from. Also, He had the attribute of a savior, and that is where Christ the Savoir came from. An attribute of comforter and friend, and that produced the Holy Spirit. We believe God is one, no doubt about that, so is the only difference between the truth and trinity is making God's attributes separte people? And the oneness is making all the attributes of God the same?

I believe we are to be in the balance of the two sides, so if there is something I am missing, I would like to know.

We believe that there is ONE GOD. Attributes are important to understanding Godhead but not a key differentiator. Everybody claims they have ONE GOD but Bro Branham clearly claimed he was not Trinity and he was not Oneness.

I think Oneness believe that Jesus the Son is just the Body in the body, soul and spirit of ONE GOD. Therefore the Body is not a separate person or entity but still part of the Godhead.

I think Trinity believe that Jesus the Son is a separate person and part of the Godhead as they claim ONE GOD is three persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I think we would all agree that the ONE GOD is omniscient (all knowing), omnipotent (all powerfull) and love. If so, Jesus the Son cannot be God as he did not know all things. He had to have visions to know what the Father required him to do and was perfected by the things that he suffered.

And yet Bro Branham clearly believed in the Deity of Jesus Christ. So how do you resolve these seemingly contradictory views by the prophet?

The answer is that Jesus the Son is not in the Godhead and is a separate person with his own body,soul and spirit. His soul was an attribute from God. His body was created by God in Mary and was the creative blood of God. His spirit was Holy Spirit but not the Person of God. In this way God could come INTO His son when he was baptised on the river Jordan and left him in the Garden of Gethsemane. During Jesus ministry, God was IN him and manifested Himself through him. So when God was in him HE WAS GOD in flesh but he went to Calvary as a MAN as our sin offering. During his ministry sometimes it was God speaking and sometimes the son speaking. Bro Branham talked about the Dove leading the Lamb. These are separate creatures showing two separate people with the same Nature.

30 ¶ I can of mine own self do nothing [not omnipotent, not God]: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true [not Oneness]. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me [not Oneness otherwise bearing witness of self].37 And the Father himself [not Oneness], which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. [Bro Branham said WORD was Urim and Thummin. Our understanding of Message must match the scriptures and Paul's gospel in particular].40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.41 I receive not honor from men.42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.43 I am come in my Father's name [Father's name is therefore the Lord Jesus Christ], and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name [denomination], him ye will receive.44 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God only?45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? [Bro Branham used a lot of Oness language. We know he was not Oneness nor Trinity. Therefore we have to taken our understanding back to the scriptures to know whether we have the Truth].

Other scriptures show that there is only one mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus (not the GOD Christ Jesus). Jesus also went to our God and HIS GOD. Jesus was also the express image of God (not the original from which the image was made). Therefore Jesus was NOT GOD.

And yet the scriptures say that by the worlds were made by the son (Heb 1:3 - making him God?). Gen 1:26 "Let US make man in our image" (Bro Branham said this was the Father speaking to the Son). Therefore the Son had a pre-creation existence and is a separate person to God (otherwise God is schizophrenic!)

As God was in Jesus the Man, He was also in His Son at the beginning and spoke Creation into existence. God going behind the Son's word to bring it into manifestation.

Jesus the Son and His Father have the SAME mind. Believe the SAME WORD. This is the true ONENESS that Jesus prayed that the church would have. Not oneness in organisation, good works, etc but to be one with Him THE WORD. So not only was Jesus the EXPRESS IMAGE in flesh but he thought the same as the Father. In essence, he was the SAME PERSON but as a separate entity could think, breath and live whether the Father was in him or not.

Because of what he achieved on Calvary, GOD made Him a Lord - head over the church and of all creation. Therefore we have TWO LORDS but only ONE GOD. The Jews also had problems with this concept as shown by Jesus asking what David meant when he wrote "The LORD said unto my Lord".

I know I have written a lot and I don't intend to write again on this subject. I have tried to get a revelation down to a nutshell but really only God the Holy Spirit can reveal the Truth.

I hope this gives you enough clues to unlock the scriptures and get the revelation for yourself. I don't expect anyone to believe me but to take these principles back to the Message and the WORD (our Urim and Thummin).

PS: The Pillar of Fire (and Cloud) denotes the personal presence of God. These are not God Himself but a manifestation that lets us know that God is present. They only appear when God is on the scene to bring His WORD to pass such as in the days of Moses, Jesus and William Branham.

PPS: Email me if you want to discuss further as I really appreciate your desire to know the Truth. I am also on this quest and still have many questions myself.

[joris]

His spirit was Holy Spirit but not the Person of God.:confused: I don't understand, what's the difference there? identity is in the spirit, right?

[FreeAtLast]

Since you are writing these things openly on a forum I might aswell reply openly too instead of e-mailing you. For I find it very important that ppl do not get confused by weird doctrines.

The answer is that Jesus the Son is not in the Godhead and is a separate person with his own body,soul and spirit. His soul was an attribute from God. His body was created by God in Mary and was the creative blood of God. His spirit was Holy Spirit but not the Person of God. In this way God could come INTO His son when he was baptised on the river Jordan and left him in the Garden of Gethsemane. During Jesus ministry, God was IN him and manifested Himself through him. So when God was in him HE WAS GOD in flesh but he went to Calvary as a MAN as our sin offering. During his ministry sometimes it was God speaking and sometimes the son speaking. Bro Branham talked about the Dove leading the Lamb. These are separate creatures showing two separate people with the same Nature.

Once again I say the bible and the prophet do NOT teach that Jesus the Son is not in the Godhead and is a seperate person. Jesus was God and man at the same time. The prophet taught this over and over.

The Holy Spirit is God himself. On the day of pentecost the life that was in Christ came into the believers when they received the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is not another person but God himself.


Other scriptures show that there is only one mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus (not the GOD Christ Jesus). Jesus also went to our God and HIS GOD. Jesus was also the express image of God (not the original from which the image was made). Therefore Jesus was NOT GOD.

As said before: Jesus was God and man at the same time. If you say Jesus was NOT GOD than you are no doubt contradicting the Word of God and the Message.


And yet the scriptures say that by the worlds were made by the son (Heb 1:3 - making him God?). Gen 1:26 "Let US make man in our image" (Bro Branham said this was the Father speaking to the Son). Therefore the Son had a pre-creation existence and is a separate person to God (otherwise God is schizophrenic!)

As God was in Jesus the Man, He was also in His Son at the beginning and spoke Creation into existence. God going behind the Son's word to bring it into manifestation.

Where did Bro. Branham say such things??????


Because of what he achieved on Calvary, GOD made Him a Lord - head over the church and of all creation. Therefore we have TWO LORDS but only ONE GOD. The Jews also had problems with this concept as shown by Jesus asking what David meant when he wrote "The LORD said unto my Lord".

This is definitely NOT true. This thought is going totally against the scripture:

Ephesians 4: 4 - 6

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


PS: The Pillar of Fire (and Cloud) denotes the personal presence of God. These are not God Himself but a manifestation that lets us know that God is present. They only appear when God is on the scene to bring His WORD to pass such as in the days of Moses, Jesus and William Branham.

I do not know what message you believe but here is what Bro. Branham says (and he said it hundreds of times):

AN.ABSOLUTE_ PHOENIX.AZ SUNDAY_ 63-0127
267 Now, wait a minute. When Paul , the great theologian that had plenty of experience, but on the road to Damascus, and he was stricken down.He looked up and there was that Pillar of Fire . He knowed that was God . He had seen It vindicated in the Bible, It was God . And he called Him, "Lord." Said, "Lord, Who are You? What can I do?"
He said, "I am Jesus ."
268 That settled it. Paul had an Absolute. He knowed that the God of the Old Testament was Jesus Christ of the New. There he was anchored, and nothing should move him. Sure. He had the vindication. Why? The same Pillar of Fire that led His people out of Egypt into Israel, into Palestine, that same Pillar of Fire was standing there claiming to be Jesus Christ. Then he knowed where he was at. Then he was ready. Soon as he got healed and filled with the Holy Ghost, he was ready to go. See?

[JoeC]

Okay. I just recently had a chance to catch up on all this. I'm not sure if what everyone is saying are seperate doctrines, or if some are merely speaking past others. In any case, for those who realize their understanding of the Godhead is not clear and would rather listen to someone who knows what they're talking about than argue about it among peers, I would recommend Brother Lonnie Jenkins' DVD Focusing on the Godhead (http://www.bcfellowship.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DFOTG&Category_Code=D).

[God'schild]

We believe that there is ONE GOD. Attributes are important to understanding Godhead but not a key differentiator. Everybody claims they have ONE GOD but Bro Branham clearly claimed he was not Trinity and he was not Oneness.

I think Oneness believe that Jesus the Son is just the Body in the body, soul and spirit of ONE GOD. Therefore the Body is not a separate person or entity but still part of the Godhead.

I think Trinity believe that Jesus the Son is a separate person and part of the Godhead as they claim ONE GOD is three persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I think we would all agree that the ONE GOD is omniscient (all knowing), omnipotent (all powerfull) and love. If so, Jesus the Son cannot be God as he did not know all things. He had to have visions to know what the Father required him to do and was perfected by the things that he suffered.

And yet Bro Branham clearly believed in the Deity of Jesus Christ. So how do you resolve these seemingly contradictory views by the prophet?

The answer is that Jesus the Son is not in the Godhead and is a separate person with his own body,soul and spirit. His soul was an attribute from God. His body was created by God in Mary and was the creative blood of God. His spirit was Holy Spirit but not the Person of God. In this way God could come INTO His son when he was baptised on the river Jordan and left him in the Garden of Gethsemane. During Jesus ministry, God was IN him and manifested Himself through him. So when God was in him HE WAS GOD in flesh but he went to Calvary as a MAN as our sin offering. During his ministry sometimes it was God speaking and sometimes the son speaking. Bro Branham talked about the Dove leading the Lamb. These are separate creatures showing two separate people with the same Nature.


As God was in Jesus the Man, He was also in His Son at the beginning and spoke Creation into existence. God going behind the Son's word to bring it into manifestation.

Jesus the Son and His Father have the SAME mind. Believe the SAME WORD. This is the true ONENESS that Jesus prayed that the church would have. Not oneness in organisation, good works, etc but to be one with Him THE WORD. So not only was Jesus the EXPRESS IMAGE in flesh but he thought the same as the Father. In essence, he was the SAME PERSON but as a separate entity could think, breath and live whether the Father was in him or not.

Because of what he achieved on Calvary, GOD made Him a Lord - head over the church and of all creation. Therefore we have TWO LORDS but only ONE GOD. The Jews also had problems with this concept as shown by Jesus asking what David meant when he wrote "The LORD said unto my Lord".

I know I have written a lot and I don't intend to write again on this subject. I have tried to get a revelation down to a nutshell but really only God the Holy Spirit can reveal the Truth.

I hope this gives you enough clues to unlock the scriptures and get the revelation for yourself. I don't expect anyone to believe me but to take these principles back to the Message and the WORD (our Urim and Thummin).

PS: The Pillar of Fire (and Cloud) denotes the personal presence of God. These are not God Himself but a manifestation that lets us know that God is present. They only appear when God is on the scene to bring His WORD to pass such as in the days of Moses, Jesus and William Branham.

do you think that Jesus and God are 2 sperate people????
If Jesus and God are 2 sperate people then the bible is wrong..
Then John 10:30 is wrong..
the bible can't be wrong it's the perfect word of God. there are no mistakes in the bible Jesus Never made a mistake in the bible He can't because he is the word.

[AndrewMichael]

One more time...

Was there anything in my first post that was incorrect? The main discussion has been off of what my first post said. If I have missed something, or am incorrect, let me know!

I was the one looking for an answer first, right? ;)

[Angelo]

Yes, this topic is very interesting to talk about, and each has a different perspective on it, I hope you caught some of our answers. The message referred by JoeC is highly recommended, (I hope I can get a copy or hear it somhow, but then, God can still reveal to me the contents of what's inside) or you can try also the preaching of Bro Chris Hall, I was really blessed by it. You can never get used to a good preaching of the Word of God.

I heard from a minister one time illustrating these scenarios, said, it was like everyone should describe an elephant with their eyes blindfolded, (though we are not blindfolded here, uhm, this is just an illustration). So what happened was, everyone took their positions beside the elephant, excited with their magnified senses. Then one said,

"Aha! I conclude that an elephant is like a large tube with two holes in the end. (sticking his fingers inside the elephants nose) :rofl: .

Then another said, "No! An elephant smells bad and is like a rope."

Then another said, "An elephant is like the bottom of a large overhead tank".

Then another, and another, another, and another, until they all joined up their observation and came up with... Tadha!!!!! an elephant is cute. lol (forgive me of my misery:) ).

[Angelo]

Not sure if I understand you right Angelo.
But where did you get that from? The son of God expressing the male person of God?
I don´t think it´s scriptural or what the prophet has said.
What do you mean by it anyway? I am not getting it at all.

I got it from Bro Chris Hall's preaching and I really believe it.

[Jezz]

that one exactly, it's the most troubling statement I know Jesus made; see? maybe this is a bit of a language issue, but "are" and "one" seem to be contradicting -- but I guess it may just be that;
ow, and this one:
gen1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
who exactly is "us" there?

I know these, these two texts, "trinity-oriented" christians (how to say that, otherwise? :confused:), tend to say there's some proof in there


QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.ON.GENESIS_ JEFF.IN COD WEDNESDAY_ 53-0729
18-43 He got all those things together, and made...?... made all the other things, all the animal life, the birds, the bees, the monkeys, and whatever it was, put them all here on earth. And then He asked this question now. "Let us (Who? Father and Son) make man in Our own image."

I didnt put something to Bro branham's name that he didn't say because clearly he did say that. The red was uncalled for.

[Angelo]

QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.ON.GENESIS_ JEFF.IN COD WEDNESDAY_ 53-0729
18-43 He got all those things together, and made...?... made all the other things, all the animal life, the birds, the bees, the monkeys, and whatever it was, put them all here on earth. And then He asked this question now. "Let us (Who? Father and Son) make man in Our own image."

I didnt put something to Bro branham's name that he didn't say because clearly he did say that. The red was uncalled for.
Wasn't He (Logos) speaking to angels? I thought it was angels: the first created beings that he made to worship Him, to show that he is God (an object of worship).

[Angelo]

We believe that there is ONE GOD. Attributes are important to understanding Godhead but not a key differentiator. Everybody claims they have ONE GOD but Bro Branham clearly claimed he was not Trinity and he was not Oneness.

I think Oneness believe that Jesus the Son is just the Body in the body, soul and spirit of ONE GOD. Therefore the Body is not a separate person or entity but still part of the Godhead.

I think Trinity believe that Jesus the Son is a separate person and part of the Godhead as they claim ONE GOD is three persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


( Note: portions was deleted to shorten post.) :)
PPS: Email me if you want to discuss further as I really appreciate your desire to know the Truth. I am also on this quest and still have many questions myself.


I really appreciate all of those explanations. God bless you bro.

[chocolateismybestfriend]

Wasn't He (Logos) speaking to angels? I thought it was angels: the first created beings that he made to worship Him, to show that he is God (an object of worship).


From the quote above, Bro Branham stated that the "Us" was Father and Son.
Jezz did not add the bolded part, its part of the quote.

[chocolateismybestfriend]

Okay. I just recently had a chance to catch up on all this. I'm not sure if what everyone is saying are seperate doctrines, or if some are merely speaking past others. In any case, for those who realize their understanding of the Godhead is not clear and would rather listen to someone who knows what they're talking about than argue about it among peers, I would recommend Brother Lonnie Jenkins' DVD Focusing on the Godhead (http://www.bcfellowship.org/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DFOTG&Category_Code=D).


I honestly dont think anyone is arguing, quite civil if you ask me!

[Angelo]

From the quote above, Bro Branham stated that the "Us" was Father and Son.
Jezz did not add the bolded part, its part of the quote.
I see, that was interesting. Thank you, sis Chocolate... How sweet of you to confirm. Thanks. That's a great thing to think about! Hmm. Very rich. :ok:

[God'schild]

I believe we need to see both sides of the Godhead.

[chocolateismybestfriend]

This is something that has been hard for me to really get, and I'm probably not the first one.

I don't believe in either the oneness or the trinitarian.

God cannot be separated into different people, and yet Jesus couldn't be His own Father. So let me check on my view that I believe comes from the scripture and the Message.

God is a person. He has many attributes. So when He had the attribute of Almighty God, Judger, Omnipotent one, then that is where the pillar of fire (or cloud) came from. Also, He had the attribute of a savior, and that is where Christ the Savoir came from. An attribute of comforter and friend, and that produced the Holy Spirit. We believe God is one, no doubt about that, so is the only difference between the truth and trinity is making God's attributes separte people? And the oneness is making all the attributes of God the same?

I believe we are to be in the balance of the two sides, so if there is something I am missing, I would like to know.

Andrew,

Jezz's long post was directed at you in answer to your question ;)

To put it shortly,

Trinity = Father, Son and Holy spirit as seperate and different entities all equalling to one God. (3 Gods really)

Oneness = Jesus (the son) is God. Jesus the son is not a seperate body or entity.

Brother Branham said he was neither, so yes you are right, we are inbetween.

You are on the right track.

We believe there is God and He is one, and God had a son who is a seperate being from God that God indwelt but is not part of the Godhead.


Hopefully this answers your question Andrew...

[God'schild]

Andrew,

Jezz's long post was directed at you in answer to your question ;)

To put it shortly,

Trinity = Father, Son and Holy spirit as seperate and different entities all equalling to one God. (3 Gods really)

Oneness = Jesus (the son) is God. Jesus the son is not a seperate body or entity.

Brother Branham said he was neither, so yes you are right, we are inbetween.

You are on the right track.

We believe there is God and He is one, and God had a son.

Hopefully this answers your question Andrew...

Disagree
God was made flesh
Read John 1:1-14.
"1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"

Jesus said in John 10:30
" I and my Father are one"

[chocolateismybestfriend]

Disagree
God was made flesh
Read John 1:1-14.
"1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"

Jesus said in John 10:30
" I and my Father are one"


This quote nicely sums it up :

CHRIST.IS.REVEALED.IN.HIS.OWN.WORD_ JEFF.IN V-4 N-10 SUNDAY_ 65-0822M
74 Notice. To misinterpret Jesus, in the form of God in a man, you would make Him--you would make Him one God out of three. To misinterpret Jesus Christ being the Word, you would make Him one God out of three, or you would make Him the second Person in a Godhead. And to do that, you would mess the whole Scripture up. You'd never get nowhere. So It must not be misinterpreted.


----

If you make Jesus the man = God you end up with two Gods.

In John 1:1, if you make Jesus the man = Word than you make him one God out of three and the second person in the Godhead.

Which Bro Branham clearly states is messing the whole scripture up.

Therefore, Jesus the man is not part of the Godhead, but was the body that the fullness of the Godhead indwelt.

[God'schild]

we should take everything that bro: branham said about the Godhead not only pieces.
I believe that Jesus was the Son of God but he was also the son of man.
God created a blood cell in mary and came and dwelt inside of it.
We worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

Do you think that when we get to heaven that we will See to gods?

it's time we stop
we're just arguing now.

[God'schild]

I'm out

And we are confusing people that don't totaly understand what the Godhead is.

[chocolateismybestfriend]

GodsChild,

John 17:21 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

----

So, If Jesus the man = God, and we are to be one as they are one - This would mean that we would eventually become God and a part of the Godhead.

Jesus the man had no sin as he believed ALL the word of God. He thought like God thought, on every subject, making them one in mind. We too can obtain this oneness by believing ALL the word for our day as Bro Branham was used by God to restore Paul's gospel.

[chocolateismybestfriend]

we should take everything that bro: branham said about the Godhead not only pieces.
I believe that Jesus was the Son of God but he was also the son of man.
God created a blood cell in mary and came and dwelt inside of it.
We worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

Do you think that when we get to heaven that we will See to gods?

it's time we stop
we're just arguing now.


We agree we dont want to argue.
And no, We dont believe that we will see two Gods in heaven.

[God'schild]

GodsChild,

John 17:21 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

----

So, If Jesus the man = God, and we are to be one as they are one - This would mean that we would eventually become God and a part of the Godhead.

Jesus the man had no sin as he believed ALL the word of God. He thought like God thought, on every subject, making them one in mind. We too can obtain this oneness by believing ALL the word for our day as Bro Branham was used by God to restore Paul's gospel.

John 10:30??????????

if i feel i need to post in hear again i will but for now i'm out

[chocolateismybestfriend]

John 10:30??????????

if i feel i need to post in hear again i will but for now i'm out

That post was in relations to John 10:30 as to what kind of oneness that the Father and Son had.

[Angelo]

Philippians 4:6 (Amplified Bible)

Do not fret or have any anxiety about anything, but in every circumstance and in everything, by prayer and petition ([a]definite requests), with thanksgiving, continue to make your wants known to God.

[FreeAtLast]

Why don´t you listen to what the prophet said about the Godhead instead of listening to some other minister´s interpretation, even if that other minister had a good intention.


The Godhead explained (61-0425B Chicago IL)

[FreeAtLast]

or another one:

Godhead explained (water baptism) 61-0119A

I am sure this will help.

[God'schild]

Why don´t you listen to what the prophet said about the Godhead instead of listening to some other minister´s interpretation, even if that other minister had a good intention.


The Godhead explained (61-0425B Chicago IL)

Amen!!!!!!!!

[BroTrevor]

"Aha! I conclude that an elephant is like a large tube with two holes in the end. (sticking his fingers inside the elephants nose) :rofl: .

Then another said, "No! An elephant smells bad and is like a rope."

Then another said, "An elephant is like the bottom of a large overhead tank".

Then another, and another, another, and another, until they all joined up their observation and came up with... Tadha!!!!! an elephant is cute. lol (forgive me of my misery:) ).

Perfect...absolutely perfect.

I love it..

so I've been busy the last few days really...the last couple weeks actually... and so I haven't been able to post or watch this thread like I would have liked to...

But I htink what Angelo says kinda sums it up. I don't think what many of us see is so very different when it comes right down to it.

A couple of these threads remind me of the old "#bro_Branham" chat room on pirch back in the day where brothers would hit each other over the head with their virtual bibles and message books shouting "ONE WORD OFF IS SATAN'S KINGDOM!" and... "IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT, BROTHER, YOU'RE JUST LOST!"

sooooo funny.... (err...or was that soo very sad and pathetic..I can't remember)

If we take this type of deeper topic such as the Godhead and whap each other back and forth trying to prove our points, we'll get nowhere.

SO, everyone.. take a big deep breath.

Feel better now?? No? Take one more!

Ok, now that we have that out of our system...

---------------

I thought about making a couple comments to kind bridge some gaps, but I shudder to, because I don't want things to get all flared up again. (not that anyone was all flared up.

-------------

We're all passionate about the Lord Jesus Christ, our Savior. We're all passionate about revelation... We need more revelation. You wont get that on the forums necessarily...

Faith cometh by??? Anyone??

Log off... go put on a tape and listen.

Have you read your bible and prayed this week???

If you can't read your bible and pray every day, and if you can't listen to at least 1 tape a week... You have no business trying to "understand Godhead". You gotta get your ABC's figured out first...quit trying the algebra.

-----------

Off soap box now...

<smile>

[Angelo]

Thank you Bro T. Next time, just don't get too busy. We miss you here. :)

[blessed]

Thank you very much Bro T, one of the reasons why I stopped using other forums is because of the arguments, we should not be doing that, I personally don't like it.

[God'schild]

Thank you very much Bro T, one of the reasons why I stopped using other forums is because of the arguments, we should not be doing that, I personally don't like it.


I agree.........

[blessed]

I just read through the thread actually i was not really following it as I should,

1 - Understanding the Godhead comes by revelation.

2 - Read your bible pray everyday and you'll grow grow grow

[Angelo]

We're not arguing, we're studying.

[Jezz]

We're not arguing, we're studying.

Most discussions of the more controversial or contentious doctrines usually end up arguments from what I hear, I don't think this discussion would have ended up that way but thats what people were worried about.

[BroTrevor]

There are just appropriate times and places for discussions of this depth.

[JoeC]

We need more revelation. You wont get that on the forums necessarily...

Faith cometh by??? Anyone??

Log off... go put on a tape and listen.

BOOM! Total agreement here. Thanks for putting things into perspective.

[joris]

I don't really know where to post this, I guess I just drop it here;

I often walk with questions, there's a tendency to get confused easily; that's because of how those emotions influence; it's not like doubting God, but it's like struggling with... me being worth in His eyes, God loving me, all that

bu what I wanted to say, some time ago, maybe a few weeks or a month... ow I had some conversation with someone; a friend, but she doesn't know branham's messages; she; well she was trying to find out whether my believe was okay, whether it wasn't a problem there; as she believed in Godhead as trinity, she asked me about that; me... I talked a bit around the way she asked, but told I believe Jesus took my sin and guilt and everything, and, that by accepting His offering, God made me His child, by that becoming my Father, and Holy Spirit being there today as He promised, and such... I guess I told her I knew I was baptised in Holy Spirit as God, He gave tongues speaking
it kind of felt like, well, weird to say I believe, say the things she believed, but also being aware she believed them a bit "different" than I do... anyway it was not a lie even if she couldn't catch by that I didn't believe exactly like she did

hmm... maybe this makes sence to you, maybe not... anyway; it was a bit weird :-p

[Angelo]

I think what you told her is the best thing to share with her.

[God'schild]

AMEN!!!!


(says message is to short:ng_thumbd )

[azurity]

I only just came across this thread (I think I'm still relatively new, and still discovering new topics!) and when I did, I was ready to jump right in with my arm-load of quotes & scriptures and share my views. But after reading through a few pages, I realised that that was exactly what everyone else was doing, and to someone else, my thoughts would just be another person's opinion.

Something else I realised is that it isn't really that easy to share a simple revelation.

Only God can give revelation. Because just as sure as someone can explain it to you, someone else can come along and explain it all away from you. But when God settles it down in your heart, it is eternal.

My advice to Brother Andrew, or anyone else that is feeling confused by all this, is go and listen to what the prophet of this church age said on this, and lay open before God. Keep in prayer, and don't try to work it out. When you see it, you'll feel like shouting at how simple it is. Because God always hides Himself in simplicity, and then reveals Himself in the same.

God bless you all, and I'll be praying for you all.


THE.REVELATION.OF.JESUS.CHRIST - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.1
You will recall that I mentioned at the beginning of this message that this Book we are studying is the actual revelation of Jesus, Himself, in the church and His work in the future ages. Then I mentioned that it takes the Holy Spirit to give us revelation or we will fail to get it. Bringing these two thoughts together you will see that it won't take just ordinary study and thinking to make this Book real. It is going to take the operation of the Holy Ghost. That means this Book can't be revealed to anyone but a special class of people. It will take one with prophetic insight. It will require the ability to hear from God. It will require supernatural instruction, not just a student comparing verse with verse, though that is good. But a mystery requires the teaching of the Spirit or it never becomes clear. How we need to hear from God and lay ourselves open and become yielded to the Spirit to hear and know.


(Read that quote that quote this morning. The whole chapter is good with alot of relevance... was hard choosing just one quote! *grin*)

[eagleendtime]

The importance of revelation by the Spirit to a true believer can never be over emphasized. Revelation means more to you than perhaps you realize

With true revelation in our lives, the gates of hell cannot prevail against us, but we will prevail over them.

These are from the Church Age Book. There are messages the Godhead Explained. The greatest revelation anyone can have is who Jesus Christ is. No man can give that to you but God

MATTHEW 16:17
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

MATTHEW 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.