Evolution

[JoeC]

Garr! & :eek:

Ok, so I signed up for a critical thinking class at college, hoping to learn how to analyze things and put the information that's presented to me on a daily basis (media, religious arguments, political arguments, person to person discussion) through a logical filter. It was going really well until our teacher decided to bring up the topic of evolution. :mad:

Now I find myself with questions I never had to deal with before. I know I could just shelve them, but then I would appear to my classmates as an illogical, unreasonable person - and that would hurt my testimony, right?

So what do I do? I'm currently reading into creation science, but I'm findind it hard to catch up my knowledge. I'm trying to go from almost zero knowledge about our origins (from a scientific standpoint) to "mach 5" persuader of the creationistic stance. Any suggestions? Encouragement? Your experiences?

[ancy]

I was baptized 3 years ago and one of the first things that God thought me was: never, ever go into an argument about your beliefs!!!!!!!!!! Say what you believe in, support it with arguments and let it go. You are not here to prove anything! I am a student at a philosophy faculty and trust me - do not enter into a debate! I had to learn it the hard way and it was invane. Even if you do prove your statement with arguments that are solid - none of your mates will say: ˝Oh, I see your point - you are right!˝
Concerning your doubt about whether Darwin's theory is correct: it is still just a theory and nobody yet proved that life evolved from matter (molecules that had no life in them) so that theory is just a theory even in science world, and even scientists are not all agreed upon that subject! They don't even know how life ˝evolved from dead substance˝. I hope that helps!

[JoeC]

Ancy, I totally agree that one should not get into a full fledged arguement. All I want to do is to state my point, but I believe that my point should be stated with as much evidence (if it is out there) as evolution has, if not more.

After my point is stated, if they blatantly refuse to open their minds - even when scientific evidence puts doubt on their theory, then let them go. But what if they are seed of God, what if they only believe evolution because it's the only thing that has been presented to them logically and they would readily believe in God, if they could just get past their initial stumbling block? Paul told us to "become all things to all men..."

[Unregistered]

I went through similar battles during college too. And however you look at it, you much choose where you will stand--by God's word, no matter how illogical it may seem, or by the world's wisdom, with the appearance of logic.

But--to defend yourself against the world's logic:
It doesn't matter how you look at it, Evolution as the world looks at it is completely, entirely impossible. How do I know? Because God said so, and because my dad is an engineer.

Sounds random, I know--but because he's an engineer, he can tell me all of these great things about energy, and chaos, and the way the natural world works. And it's this simple: it is mathematically impossible for the elements and substances in the natural world to line up and actually create life. The probability of "such an event" is too great. There has to be an intelligent life behind creation. There is no other answer, but the creator, God Himself. Even many scientists themselves have finally come to this conclusion. They may not admit that it's God, but they do realize that textbook evolution is rediculous.

If you want to wade through a lot of technical literature on this subject, then you can check out this site: http://www.carm.org/evolution/evodds.htm

To me, the easiest way to put this in common, everyday, human knowlege is to recognize what happens when **human genetics** don't go right. There are a whole host of diseases and disorders that happen when our own 46 chromosomes aren't matched up correctly. For instance: Down's Syndrome, Sickle-Cell Anemia, color-blindness, hemophilia, trisomy, marfan's--the list is much longer than I can (or can even know to) mention.

How can science expect that life would evolve from a handful of molecules and atoms without the hand of a creator, when we, in our fallen state, can't even maintain our own genetic purity? In our world, we will always be moving towards a state of chaos, rather than away from it. Only God's hand can right this, pulling us back into perfection.

But when you get down to it...
Even this debate doesn't matter. Bro. Branham always said that it was either one of two things: Faith or doubt. And it doesn't matter how much we try to prove, we all know that God's finger created the universe, because He said so, and we believe. And I don't think anyone got healed in one of Bro. Branham's meetings because of science. It was simple, pure, Faith.

Even when our human faculties fail, Jesus Christ doesn't.

God Bless!!!

[JoeC]

I like what you say, and I hope to see you on here more often.

Now, I realize that my belief in God in a matter of faith - pure, simple faith. I do not need scientific evidence for my belief. I do see how the scientific evidence (I do believe it's out there) would bolster my faith - but that's not neccessary.

I guess I just want to have the knowledge to show the people at college that Christians are completly devoid of reasoning and following blindly like anyone other bunch of religious fanatics out there. As Christians, true Christians, we use a lot of reasoning - but it's based on the Bible which we have faith in. Non-believers don't understand that kind of reasoning - I was hoping to show them in some other way. Am I wrong?

[Unregistered]

I don't think you're wrong for wanting to know. After all, I wouldn't have known anything about how evolution was statistically/probability-wise impossible, except that my dad told me. And I asked for that information after my professor in my 100-level science class hit on this subject.

After all, those who blindly follow evolution might as well be calling it a religion where man worships man or nature rather than God--so it pays to know what we're talking about. But for me, there comes a point when I don't have the knowledge to refute their claims... I don't have enough technical knowledge about the mathematics and chemistry of biology to bother debating. So that's the point when I go back to Faith. :)

God Bless!!

[JoeC]

I guess I'm just interested in the technical aspect of the thing. It's interesting. I like what you say about evolutionists worshipping man or nature. When you look at it objectively - with as little bias on either side as possible) it takes at least as much faith to believe in evolution as it does creationsism.

And they ARE a religion - a religion of scientism and humanism - worshipping their own intellect (which, really, their thinking is like an ant trying to ponder quantum physics - even at the Ph.D level).

[JoeC]

...I am a student at a philosophy faculty...

Ancy, I was thinking of taking Philosophy as a second major or a minor for the analytical benefits - but just with this first phl class, I've already begun to notice my mind trying to take over my decision faculties - rather than my faith - so I've pretty much given up the idea as being detrimental for a Christian.

So you're mentioning of being a phl student interests me. What are you're experiences? Is it tough to keep humble with all the increased mental "awareness?" Do you ever find yourself trying to reason out your faith? Or do you not have any problems with it at all?

[ancy]

I am not a philosophy student, I am a student at a colledge university - our schooling system is a little different then yours... But many of my colleagues are philosphy students so debating with them is inevitable and very frequent. Personally, I had much struggle in the area of reasoning - being that I am not raised in a believing family. Somehow I survived :)
It is strange, but those debates somehow strenghtened my faith. A brother told me a parable: when the wind blows, if it doesn't pluck the tree out - it moves it's roots and strenghtens them so they can grow deeper into the ground - so next time the wind blows, it will take much more to power to pluck out the tree. Two years ago, the slightest debate moved me away from faith, and now, it takes much much more!
I hope this makes sense :(

[collegegirl]

I totally agree with you. Something that I have struggled with is just standing by while someone blasphemes God, or comes very near to it. I have a teacher that believes in a God, or rather a god, but then again he also believes in a goddess. He believes that there is no such place as hell, and he is just so mixed up. You can't convince him that he is wrong, but I know that he can't convince me that the way that I believe is wrong. When everything else is telling me, "you are just too simple, so stupid to believe just anything", trying to make me doubt, I remember the verse where Christ was talking about the little child, and He said what He did about needing faith like a little child. Just think of when you were little. Did you have to worry if mommy was going to feed you, or if daddy was going to run off the road when he took you places, or that you knew that when mom and dad came back from a trip that they had something for you? So why can't we have that faith with God? The world tells us no. The world tells us to hurry hurry hurry, that we are no body unless we have this or that, and above all, trust NO ONE. Peter had to have that faith when he stepped out of the boat. We have to stop thinking about what will happen if we do, but rather what will happen if we DON'T.

I had also read somewhere about standing up for yourself. It said that people like you better when you stand for something, because it shows them that you aren't a flimsy, spineless nothing. (my own words :) ) So I started doing that with the basic verses, such as John 3:16, and the ones in 1 Cor. 11:15-16 about the hair, and about the modest clothing. It is amazing how far you can go with the basics, but you have to make sure that you know them first, specifically the location of the verses (it usually shuts them up faster when you have a verse location, instead of it just being "the Bible"). The first chapters in Genesis, and in 1 John, I think it is, totally negates the concept of evolution. How could anything just come together like that? Evolution is just what it is: a THEORY!!! Even Darwin believed in God. Einstein believed in God. In fact he asked why one could not believe in God seeing has how it all pointed to Him, and still does. Most of the greatest minds in history believed in God. Mr. Dewey came up with the Dewey decimal system, in church mind you, (but we won't go there.) Also, remember where it talks about in the Bible where it says that in the hour, God will give you words to speak. Trying to force your point across generally means that it isn't God behind it, but you. We want Him glorified, not ourselves.

[Unregistered]

You guys need to search on what Bro. Branham said about Evolution. He said that Scientists had it backwards. He said that it was devolution. That the serpent devolved to the state that god cursed him to. On his belly......

[HotShot53]

One of the best places I know to find the creationist side of the argument is the Institute for Creation Research http://www.icr.org/ Look there and see what you find.

[Babyruth]

The only thing I have to say about evolution is my theory. Over the summer I had to do 6 chapters from my college Biology book on evolution, and I read an article in National Geographic then too that made me think my theory: I think that God made our DNA and other things scientists look at so close to other animals partly to confuse them all. I can see Him chuckling to Himself, thinking that those scientists are so dumb. I thought it was a rather funny picture, after all, the Bible talks about God laughing. If I have offended anyone by this, forgive me, I don't mean anything bad, I believe God has a sense of humor and what better way than that?

[blessed]

i do believe that God has a sense of humor, im sure there were times when i just made him laugh

[Babyruth]

Me too! All the time!

[morning_mist]

yes I also believe that God has a sense of humor :)

[blessed]

i do believe i give him a headache sometimes to

[marichino_freedom]

i agree...i have done my fair share of blundering. i fortunately have been blessed enough to have teachers that stress the fact that it is a THEORY that hasnt been proven and that dont spend too much time on it. unfortunately, i start a new semester tonite and i dont know how my zoology teacher is.

as a biology major, it can be a pretty tough world.

:peep:

[HotShot53]

Ouch, yeah, evolution is kind of a major foundation for a lot of biology things taught, I'm sure....

[Christian-Samurai]

of course he has humor, are we not created in the Image of God? I am sure Jesus even laughed after all he was a man too :) Why would God give us Humor if we werent suppose to enjoy it

[Babyruth]

Yeah, evolution is everywhere!!! I'm in college biology and it's a lot of fun, but a whole unit is on evolution and every chapter references to it. It drives me crazy! My grandma gave me a really funny comic about the monkeys that see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. These ones were making fun of evolutin, I can't remember what it said, but it was good. If I ever find it, I'll post it in here.

[NeedGod]

oh evolution drives me nuts too, especially when i see people using it to mock black people and say they came from monkeys. its insane, why would God say it was good if he wasnt through with it? these peole are so lost

[marichino_freedom]

i'm always arguing with my neice...she is 11 and is convinced we come from monkeys (yet she believes in God, and is "catholic")

[Babyruth]

God made man in the image of Himself. I don't think God looks like a monkey or is a monkey. So the people that say that must think that God is or looks like a monkey.

[blessed]

God made man in the image of Himself. I don't think God looks like a monkey or is a monkey. So the people that say that must think that God is or looks like a monkey.
that is really funny for people to actually believe that

[Babyruth]

I think so too.

[JoeC]

it's preposterous! Even if we did believe in theistic evolution (God-directed evolution), monkeys are merely a link in the chain - certainly nothing you could peg God to looking like! You could just as well say God looks like a one celled organism! Puh-leese!

On a more academic note, I don't believe the Bible meant that God created man in His literal, physical image. I think it means in his image in that we have a soul.

[marichino_freedom]

true...but the only resemblance we have to monkeys is opposable thumbs....

[marichino_freedom]

and why would we evolve from monkeys and they dont die out...because thats the whole reason for evolution right? there is a need of change or something like that...

[NeedGod]

yeah, you all make so much sense. now, will someone please go out there and tell the world this

[marichino_freedom]

like they'd listen....

[Mick_Mack89]

yeah it's a shame, the world will never listen to us. We are a sane people in the middle of a madhouse. But to the world we are crazy, who listens to crazy people? No one sadly. And than there is that question "if there was only one sane person left in the world, is he crazy?"

[NeedGod]

no, he is not crazy but he is abnormal coz the rest of the people are normal in their craziness and he is normal in his sanity. whew, that sounds so confusing. but if it comes down to it, i will be abnormal for God any day than be normal or sane for the world.

[marichino_freedom]

i am definately with you on that one!!!

[NeedGod]

amen . anyhow, the world probably think we are insane

[morning_mist]

yes...the world mostly thinks we are insane...remember the prophets of old...they were called heretics...but we are glad to be considered insane for Lord :)......

[morning_mist]

for the Lord i mean :D!

[jordancpeterson]

So early today before I saw this thread and registered here, I put in the box that asks what gets you talking: “Evolution vs. Creation”. Yes it’s a passion of mine but hey, don’t have time to read all the arguments. I usually just like to throw a firecracker in on these conversations and then run! :-D

[HotShot53]

morning_mist, if you catch your mistake withing 5 min of posting, there will be an edit button next to the quote button, so you can edit it instead of making a new post.

Welcome to the boards Jordan :) We have an introduction section for new members to introduce themselves at... you might want to say hi there ;)

[NeedGod]

yeah, let us all be insane for the Word. if they think we are mad, then if madness is being in love with Jesus, i want to be mad any day :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Unregistered]

On the subject of evolution...well scientists disapprove themself after they say that something out of God's Word is wrong. The theory of evolution starts with a single cell...how does that get there? It could not get there without a creator. The evolution theory is like stating that you put a piece of metal in your backyard, and it becomes a BMW. Now if I told you that how many would believe me? Hopefully none. I covered that topic in one of my English papers in one of my college classes...if you research on it..it's totally unbelievable. It's disgusting how they go against God's word. If you don't understand something in the Bible believe it anyway and God will reveal it to you when it's in His perfect time. Anyway I hope that helps a little. God Bless.

[HotShot53]

Yeah, it is pretty unbelievable how they think everything came from nothing... it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God.

[blessed]

it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God.
lol, that is so true.....

[Angelo]

...and also correct. :banana:

[NeedGod]

tell me about it. how does one believe that we came from monkeys. sheesh. anyhow, when God saw what He had created, He saw it was good, why would He want it to change yet again.

[gingersnap4jc]

So early today before I saw this thread and registered here, I put in the box that asks what gets you talking: “Evolution vs. Creation”. Yes it’s a passion of mine but hey, don’t have time to read all the arguments. I usually just like to throw a firecracker in on these conversations and then run! :-D

Hey Jordan Welcome! Look forward to talking to you here!
May Jesus Bless You, Mary

[marichino_freedom]

i'm taking two courses right now that are both in the evolution chapters. technically, they say we came from a common ANTHROPOID, but i still think they all look like monkeys (same difference-going against God)

[NeedGod]

people giving all these evolution talk and telling everyone they evolved just dont know how God did his creation. i even heard some catholics in high school saying some priest believed in evolution and still believed in God. even back then, i wanted to ask, which God? in my opinion, if it aint written, it aint true. period. and i havent seen it in the bible anywhere so there!!! its all from hell then, all of it. coz if it aint from heaven, its from hell.

[e_thunderburd]

In case no one's mentioned it already, if you need some knowledge fast, the best way I know is to listen to some of Kent Hovind's seminars on Creation, Evolution and Dinosaurs. These things are fascinating, and they're free online at www.drdino.com. I listen to them all the time.
Dr. Hovind taught high school science for fifteen years and has spent the last (I think) twenty years as an evangelist teaching about the above subject. You'll find the usual personally defaming websites, but the man seems scientifically sound.
Disclaimer: Dr. Hovind is not a Message believer, he is a Baptist. He is a Trinitarian, so you have to check out what he says against the Bible and the Message. Most of it agrees, or at least doesn't conflict. Hope this helps. His website has all kinds of resources for this kind of thing.