Will There Be Pagans in Heaven? [Archive]

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JoeC

05-17-2006, 01:40 AM

I've had this thought for a long time now. I'm going to put it out here for you all to give your thoughts on it.

Here it is:

Before Europeans arrived to the Americas, there were Native Americans who had never heard the Truth before. However, there were some that recognized that there was a higher power - I'm sure there were even those that worshipped one God and tried to be moral.

Given that Brother Branham many times spoke of people following in the light for their day having grace reputed unto them (speaking of those Christians in church ages past now) - even those that lived in his day but were born in another - do you think the same principle would apply and that Native Americans who followed in the best light they had will have place in Heaven? Is there grace for them? Or do they suffer hellfire because they never had the chance to hear the gospel in it's fullness?

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 01:43 AM

Well, I do remember Brother Branham saying something about how only 5% of the world knew Jesus came, but that it didn't matter because those were the only ones ordained to life (not sure about true quote, sorry about that). I'm not sure about this topic really, I know God is just, but I don't know much about it....sorry folks, BroTrevor get in here!!

Angelo

05-17-2006, 06:34 AM

Jezz

05-17-2006, 06:45 AM

"God sends gifts into the Church to still, to be sure that everyone will be without an excuse"

Do Native Americans have an excuse then? because they didn't hear the Word, see the gifts, even hear of the gifts

I'm not sure we'll get an answer to this one. All I can say for sure is that if you are Seed, you are saved, God will make a way. So if there was a Native American who was a Seed of God, then they'll be in heaven.

JoeC

05-17-2006, 10:59 AM

Let me try first to let the best of the wine come after; the scriptures cannot be broken.

In Revelations 20:12 says:

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All the names of men that will live, and had lived is written in the Book of Life. Some of them will be taken out, and some will remain until the second (2nd) resurrection. And every person, great and small, that is listed on these books will be resurrected and judged before the White Throne according to their works.
Very interesting. By second resurection, you mean the rapture, right? So people will be judged accoding to their works? What about those that heard Christ, rejected him, but gave to chairties and worked in soup kitchens?

All I can say for sure is that if you are Seed, you are saved, God will make a way. So if there was a Native American who was a Seed of God, then they'll be in heaven.
Perhaps my perception of predestination is skewed (wouldn't be surprised), but this doesn't seem to be the way it works. How do you define "seed of God" Jezz?

FreeAtLast

05-17-2006, 11:00 AM

2. Corinthians 5:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

I believe this also goes for ppl that never had a chance to hear the gospel.
God is just. He will judge them according to their deeds.
For God gave every human being a conscience.

I am sure I heard Bro. Branham say something along those lines somewhere…
Unfortunately I can´t find the quote right now.

Jezz

05-17-2006, 11:39 AM

Perhaps my perception of predestination is skewed (wouldn't be surprised), but this doesn't seem to be the way it works. How do you define "seed of God" Jezz?

I define "seed of God" as your soul is from God. It has to be from God or its a perversion (from Satan), if its from God its a part of God and God will ensure that soul is not lost. Perhaps my understanding needs some refining. How do you see predestination?

And if I may attempt to answer your question about Angelos post:

Brother Branham in Sardisean Church Age
"We now face the question as to why they ("they" being those in Revelations 20:12) should be given eternal life at the judgment since the Epistles seem to conclusively point out that one must possess the Spirit of Christ or perish. Though it seems thus, we must not discredit the words of Jesus Who most pointedly sets forth that there are some found in the Book of Life who will either receive eternal life before the general resurrection or after it..... Now we do not need to guess about those who in the second resurrection are given life. We are told it is given to them on the grounds that they have been kind and good to the "Brethren". Those who are raised and cast into the lake of fire will be so treated because of their mistreatment of the "Brethren". Since this is the Word of God we simply accept it. There is no argument here, just a simple statement of fact."

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 11:50 AM

BroTrevor get in here!!

But I am here....

Angelo

05-17-2006, 12:57 PM

Very interesting. By second resurection, you mean the rapture, right? So people will be judged accoding to their works? What about those that heard Christ, rejected him, but gave to chairties and worked in soup kitchens?

The First Resurrection is the new birth, wherein the second death (Lake of Fire) has no power over.

The Second Resurrection will happen during the White Throne judgment wherein all the books will be opened: where all the works of men is written. The first death is the death people will experience in this life.

The question that lingers in my mind is where does the souls of good people that will be judged after the millenium temporarily go to?

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 01:00 PM

The question that lingers in my mind is where does the souls of good people that will be judged after the millenium temporarily go to?

Well first they go through the Tribulation, we all know that. After that I'm not sure. Maybe, they would go to Hell for the Millenium to be throughly purged after rejecting the redemption of Christ, and then get to come into the Kingdom of God after the White Thrown Judgement.... Just a thought though.

blessed

05-17-2006, 01:09 PM

redeemed

05-17-2006, 01:23 PM

isn't that in 1st or 2nd Corinthians? (i just studied that so i should remeber but i can't find my text book!:y10: )

FreeAtLast

05-17-2006, 02:10 PM

FreeAtLast

05-17-2006, 02:14 PM

here another scripture on gentiles (pagans):

Romans 2:

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

To me that´s pretty clear.

JoeC

05-17-2006, 02:39 PM

joris

05-17-2006, 02:47 PM

good topic; when I didn't believe yet, this (unanswered) question gave me some trouble believing God is just (now, I know He is, if we can't actually see how that worked out it's just our lack of imagination or so)

JoeC

05-17-2006, 03:08 PM

Mel said something about Gog & Magog being some sort of a determinate for those who never herd the gospel. Any theologians among us?

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 04:00 PM

I can say that Bro Branham mentioned in his vision about seeing Hope and his daughter Sharon that when the believers die, they go to the "presence of God". They are not there where they can see God, "he is a little higher yet"

What I also believe I understand is that unbelievers go to "the regions of the lost" which Bro Branham describes in the Message "souls that are in prison now". He describes it as a dark place, where you are just falling and falling. He speaks of calling out for his mother and his father, but they weren't there...he talks of crying for God, but there was no God there.

He mentions it in the following.

SOULS.THAT.ARE.IN.PRISON.NOW_ JEFF.IN V-2 N-22 SUNDAY_ 63-1110M
19-2 As I saw the vision of both places, have by the grace of God (I say this not to be sacrilegious and if it's wrong, God forgive me), I believe I've been in both places (See?), in both places. And I've seen the redeemed and blessed, and I've seen the lost and where they were at. And that's why I stand as your brother today to warn you to flee from that downward path. Don't you never go that road.
And you've got everything to live for, that blessed upward way, where the redeemed are in joy and peace, and they can't sin, they can't--can't be sorry. They can't... There--there's nothing--they're perfect. Seen both places. I know that's an awful statement for a person to make but God being my Judge, I solemnly believe I've seen both places. I--I believe that.
SOULS.THAT.ARE.IN.PRISON.NOW_ JEFF.IN V-2 N-22 SUNDAY_ 63-1110M
19-4 And oh, far be it from any person ever entering that regions of the lost. If you were standing with hot wires bored through you, tormented in every way, it'd be not like that devil torment there is in that place. There could be nothing could--human mind couldn't... The human mind couldn't comprehend what that regions of the lost is. There's no way to explain it. And there's no way to explain what the regions of the blessed is; it's so great. That's so horrible and this is so--so great. It's from the ridiculous to the sublime.
SOULS.THAT.ARE.IN.PRISON.NOW_ JEFF.IN V-2 N-22 SUNDAY_ 63-1110M
19-5 So if anybody hears me... And I'm getting to be an old man. I don't know how much longer I've got. I'll soon be fifty-five years old. And I--I don't know; according to nature I may not have too many years. I don't know where this tape will go, but let everyone here, hearing the tape or wherever it may go: Don't never go toward that regions of the lost. You can't picture hell being that bad. And whatever you do, don't you never getting--forget this, that the regions of the blessed... I would say this with St. Paul, "Eyes has not seen; ear has not heard; or either could it enter the heart of man, what God has for them in store that love Him."
SOULS.THAT.ARE.IN.PRISON.NOW_ JEFF.IN V-2 N-22 SUNDAY_ 63-1110M
19-6 So stop, if you're listening at the tape, turn the machine off and repent if you're not saved, and get right with God. I'm saying this by firsthand experience, as I believe in my heart; and I say if these--if the visions has deceived me, God be merciful for me making a statement like that; but with the sincerity of my heart, knowing that not one of them visions ever failed, I believe that I have been in both places. Far be it from any human being going that road downward.

-------------------
Can I update this one?

So stop, if you're reading the forums, turn the machine off and repent if you're not saved, and get right with God.

------------

Ok, back on track...

Truly a somber subject. I would like to say that we must keep in mind, as Angelo was asking, "good people that will recieve pardon after the melinneum" Where do they go?? My only answer as I see things is the regions of the lost. However, keep in mind, that time there...is not like time here I don't believe.

So, for more on this subject of who's where after the first death, I ask you to consider the tape "Souls that are in prison now"

I leave you with this...

SOULS.THAT.ARE.IN.PRISON.NOW_ JEFF.IN V-2 N-22 SUNDAY_ 63-1110M
18-5 He went and preached to souls that were in prison (which is hell) locked up until the day of the judgment, 'cause, you see, the judgment isn't now, and there's no burning hell now. Somebody tell you that a guy's in burning hell now, that's wrong. See?
A judge of this earth is just enough to never condemn a man until he's brought to trial. And God will never throw a man into the fiery furnace until first He is condemned by God's Own Law. He rejected mercy, so you see, he first has to have a trial, and the trial is the great white throne judgment, but now he's in a place called the prison house.

-----------------

As to the original thought, on the heathen natives who worshipped the "Great Spirit" being in heaven some day...

I'm still thinking on it... could they be like little babies that don't know better if no one told them about Jesus?

I don't know...

I know that they wont be bride without the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

JoeC, I don't think your concept of predestination is skewed...

When Bro Branham was asked about babies...he said...

QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.ON.THE.HOLY.GHOST_ JEFF.IN COD SATURDAY_ 59-1219
434-108 Look. Let's take for instance, Moses. When Moses was born, he was a prophet. Before Jeremiah... God told Jeremiah, "Before you was even formed in your mother's womb, before you was ever formed in her womb, I knew you, and sanctified you, and ordained you a prophet to the nations, John the Baptist, 712 years before he was born, Isaiah saw him in a vision, said, "He's the voice of one crying in the wilderness."
The predestination or the foreknowledge of God knows all about the little babies (See?), what they were to do. And He knowed they would die. He knowed. Nothing can happen without God knowing about it. Nothing can happen to... Just like the Good Shepherd, how He goes in... Now, to take this by Scripture, I couldn't say the Scripture says so-and-so. I'm just taking it for my thought.

I would think this applies to those natives that have not heard the gospel as well.

I must say however, this is a very unknown topic, and since we have no "past practice" to base this on (i.e. it's never happened) so we really don't know...and the Bible doesn't say a whole heap about it.

We must remember that GOd is full of love and Grace and Just.

blessed

05-17-2006, 04:05 PM

WOW!!!!!!!!

I would recommend all read or listen to Souls that are in Prison now its a life changing message. It opened up my eyes to alot of things.

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 04:06 PM

I spent WAAAAAAAY to long on that post.

blessed

05-17-2006, 04:07 PM

It was worth it....

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 04:56 PM

Just before anyone calls me a "Purgatory believer" I did say "MAYBE" I really didn't have any idea but I didn't know where they went, mainly because I don't want to be there!!

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 05:40 PM

Just before anyone calls me a "Purgatory believer" I did say "MAYBE" I really didn't have any idea but I didn't know where they went, mainly because I don't want to be there!!

Ok, so NOW can we call you a "purgatory believer"?

<chuckle>

blessed

05-17-2006, 06:03 PM

To late Andrew I think someone hinted that already lol

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 06:10 PM

Well, let's just ask this then.

Where does the foolish virgin go when the Bride is in the Millenium?

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 06:36 PM

Well, let's just ask this then.

Where does the foolish virgin go when the Bride is in the Millenium?

I'd have to say the same place... "regions of the lost"

I just don't see it anywhere else. Doesn't make me happy per se...but I can't see it anyway else scripturally.

(P.S. I don't claim to always be right...)

JoeC

05-17-2006, 07:07 PM

Where is Abraham right now? Where is my grandpa right now? Where is my uncle right now? Where are YOUR saved loved ones? I speculate that wherever they are, the foolish virgin will be.

Angelo

05-17-2006, 10:22 PM

Abraham, and many (probably not all) of the saints that was in Paradise (Abraham's bossom) was ressurected together with Christ, Matt 27:52-53.
If Paradise is still active right now, then that is the right place.

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 11:45 PM

But the foolish virgin does not have the Holy Ghost, or the revelation of God in his day, and then wouldn't they no longer be heir with Abraham with the promise? Or do they float in paradise while we go to the Wedding Supper? Or do they still wander in that fifth demension of the lost until the day of the White Thrown Judgement? Or do they have to suffer Hell for a little bit because they rejected Christ's blood (not Purgatory!!!) or does the Tribulation cause the purging and then the foolish virgin waits asleep until the White Thrown Judgement? Any thoughts...

BroTrevor

05-18-2006, 12:10 AM

or does the Tribulation cause the purging and then the foolish virgin waits asleep until the White Thrown Judgement? Any thoughts...

I believe it is the tribulation that purges them. They must give their lives for the Word of God.

AndrewMichael

05-18-2006, 12:15 AM

I believe it is the tribulation that purges them. They must give their lives for the Word of God.

Yes, but where are they during the Millenium...unless the Millenium takes the same time as the Tribulation, being in different dimensions...now that's a thought!

BroTrevor

05-18-2006, 12:17 AM

Yes, but where are they during the Millenium...unless the Millenium takes the same time as the Tribulation, being in different dimensions...now that's a thought!

its not in diff dimensions......

AndrewMichael

05-18-2006, 12:18 AM

the Tribulation and the Millenium are in the same dimension??? how?

BroTrevor

05-18-2006, 12:21 AM

the Tribulation and the Millenium are in the same dimension??? how?

trib happens..... then when its over millenium starts

AndrewMichael

05-18-2006, 12:23 AM

BroTrevor

05-18-2006, 12:26 AM

right, confused myself....but the Tribulation is over, and the Millenium is ushered in, but where are all the souls? The condemn ones are in hell right? (not even sure about that one) but what about the ones that will be allowed in after the White Thrown Judgement?

I believe they will be in the "regions of the lost" which I believe is slightly different from Hell. My thoughts are that those that are currently In the presence of God, but yet can't see Him (He's a little higher yet) are much like those that weren't serving the Lord being in the regions of the lost, pretty much the presence of Hell, but not quite there.

But, that's the way I see it... I can't say that I have a comprehensive understanding of it.

AndrewMichael

05-18-2006, 12:33 AM

I believe they will be in the "regions of the lost" which I believe is slightly different from Hell. My thoughts are that those that are currently In the presence of God, but yet can't see Him (He's a little higher yet) are much like those that weren't serving the Lord being in the regions of the lost, pretty much the presence of Hell, but not quite there.

But, that's the way I see it... I can't say that I have a comprehensive understanding of it.

Well here's how I have looked at it. They can't be with the Bride in the Millenium, and have died for the Word of God sake, but maybe they fall asleep till the Judgement, while the condemned rest in Hell. But if that is so, then why do we have to judge them, if we already know that those who were in Hell are thrown in the lake of fire, and those that are saved are resting (or in some other place). This is where my confusion came from.

JoeC

05-18-2006, 12:37 AM

I believe it is the tribulation that purges them. They must give their lives for the Word of God.
Here here. I understand there to be a sixth dimension that acts as a "holding zone - like paradise... but like in Brother Branham's vision of Heaven in which he asked where Christ was at and was told that Christ was "just a little higher" - in the 7th dimension from what I understand. And I suppose it's the 7th that we go to for the wedding supper.

To be honest, it's a little unclear to me. :misli:

AndrewMichael

05-18-2006, 12:39 AM

So are we saying that the Foolish Virgin rest in the Sixth Demension after the Tribulation and the lost are in Hell. Then the White Thrown Judgement cast the lost into the lake of fire and brings the foolish virgin in.

Jezz

05-18-2006, 12:52 AM

Well first they go through the Tribulation, we all know that. After that I'm not sure. Maybe, they would go to Hell for the Millenium to be throughly purged after rejecting the redemption of Christ, and then get to come into the Kingdom of God after the White Thrown Judgement.... Just a thought though.

I agree, Revelations 20:13 states that "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged, every man according to their works". All those who rejected the Word from previous ages would have to be waiting somewhere to be judged. In Glorified Jesus Brother Branham said:

"Listen close. If you go this a way, the first dimension is the spirits of the dead. Peter spoke of it: "in prison, that repented not by long suffering in the days of Noah." The wicked unregenerated man, when he dies, his spirit goes into this realm. The next realm below that is demons. The next realm below that is hell. I'm giving you a parable so you see it."

FreeAtLast

05-18-2006, 04:15 AM

But the question of this thread was not: Where does the foolish virgin go during the millenium (I believe they will be in another dimension - just like all the dead ppl are right now).
We were talking about pagans, ppl that have never heard the gospel at all. And what will happen to them.
The foolish virgin has definitly heard the gospel - there was only one difference to the wise virgin: They didnt had the oil!! (Holy Ghost).

JoeC

05-18-2006, 08:48 AM

You're right. :worthy: We should make another thread on that. Back on topic!

BroTrevor

05-18-2006, 10:18 AM

"Listen close. If you go this a way, the first dimension is the spirits of the dead. Peter spoke of it: "in prison, that repented not by long suffering in the days of Noah." The wicked unregenerated man, when he dies, his spirit goes into this realm. The next realm below that is demons. The next realm below that is hell. I'm giving you a parable so you see it."

Well, Jezz is proving himself to be quite a scholar. That's exactly what I was trying to find...

I personally feel that this is where all who have not recieved a new birth would go... even if later they are accepted into the kingdom for something they've done. (I could be wrong of course.) This would include the "pagans" this thread started out with, as well as Foolish virgin.

blessed

05-18-2006, 10:43 AM

trib happens..... then when its over millenium starts
*lifts hands*
I have a question Chaplain...

From what I understand the Bride does not go through the tribulation, then if the Millenium starts after the tribulation happens where is the Bride considering the fact that the rapture would have happended already.

Angelo

05-18-2006, 10:46 AM

Let me show y'guys a scripture and a qoute on this that I pray may help us out.

Let's take for example Lazarus and the rich man, in Luke 16:19-31. They were both in hell, but in different portions of it: (1) Is the place of torment (where the rich went), and (2) is the place where there is comfort (Abraham's bosom). How can we say that they were both in hell? They were actually speaking to each other even though there was a great gulf fixed before them. We should also take note that the dominion is in Satan's power but was taken by the Lord Jesus Christ when He went and preached in that place.

EXPECTATIONS_ JONESBORO.AR THURSDAY_ 53-0507
E-19 On down He went into hell, knocked at the door, and Satan opened up. Said, "Oh, so after all You got here, did You?" Said, "I thought I had You when I slayed Abel. I was sure I had you when I put Daniel in the lions den, the Hebrew children in the fiery furnace." Christ was in every one of them. "Then," said, "when I beheaded John, I thought I had You then. Then I thought I had You on Calvary, but now, You're here."
I can hear Him say, "Satan, I'm the virgin born Son of God. My Blood is still dripping from the cross yonder. I've come down to take over. You made people fear, scared them, and run them around corners and everything else, but you can't do it no more. Give Me the keys of death and hell." Took them from his side, hung them on His side, walked up through the other stair steps, knocked on the door where I could hear a shouting meeting in there. And there stood Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Sarah, Rebekah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, all the prophets.
I hear Him knocking at the door and say, "Who is there?" Abraham opens up the door, why, here's the Seed of Abraham. Here's the Root and Offspring of David. Here's the Stone that Isaiah saw cut out of the mountain without hands.

E-20 He said, "Now, you believe, and the goats and heifer's blood could not take away sin; it only covered it up. But My Blood has divorced sin and put it away forever. We're going home now. It's coming daylight in Jerusalem, and we've got to be moving along."
I can hear Abraham say, "Lord, can we make a little whistle stop as we go through Jerusalem? Well, I'd like to look the old city over." Amen.
Some of that same noise will come in this graveyard across here, some of these days, "Can we make a whistle stop?"
I can hear Him say, "I've got to talk over a few things with My disciples, about forty days." Sure, look around the country. And on Easter morning, when He come out of the grave, according to Matthew 27, "The many of the saints that slept in the dust of the earth, rose out of the grave and come out and appeared unto many."

We can take note that there are portions on it, just like the 6th dimension.
I hope it helped somehow...

Angelo

05-18-2006, 11:13 AM

We can also take note Bro Branham's illustration after The Lord took the keys:
"'Give Me the keys of death and hell.' Took them from his side, hung them on His side, walked up through the other stair steps, knocked on the door where I could hear a shouting meeting in there...."

A specific place for a specific group, and Jesus didn't have to get out of the dimension to go to the other.

BroTrevor

05-18-2006, 11:20 AM

*lifts hands*
I have a question Chaplain...

From what I understand the Bride does not go through the tribulation, then if the Millenium starts after the tribulation happens where is the Bride considering the fact that the rapture would have happended already.

The bride is at the marriage supper during the tribulation...

Bro Branham illustrates this with a type of Joseph. Josephs "gentile bride" was in the palace while Joseph made himself known to his brethren.

blessed

05-18-2006, 11:32 AM

But it could have been seperate dimensions not literaly same place.

I don't think it was a literal key, because of sin death entered but when the sinless one came satan did not have that hold on him, and when that sinless One is in us satan will not have a hold on us the corruptible will put on incorruption,but you must be in that perfect image of the sinless One for his hold to be broken.We will be like him.

I think that there are two places the regions of the lost and paradise where the saints are. When he was in hell he preached to the lost souls as a witness to what was preached by his prophets. To me hell contains those who heard and rejected him

This is what the scripture says:

Psalm 9:17:The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God

Luke 16 :
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

To be continued.... (at work right now)

blessed

05-18-2006, 11:34 AM

The bride is at the marriage supper during the tribulation...

Bro Branham illustrates this with a type of Joseph. Josephs "gentile bride" was in the palace while Joseph made himself known to his brethren.

How could I forget that..:y10:

blessed

05-18-2006, 11:39 AM

Let's take for example Lazarus and the rich man, in Luke 16:19-31. They were both in hell, but in different portions of it: (1) Is the place of torment (where the rich went), and (2) is the place where there is comfort (Abraham's bosom). How can we say that they were both in hell? They were actually speaking to each other even though there was a great gulf fixed before them. We should also take note that the dominion is in Satan's power but was taken by the Lord Jesus Christ when He went and preached in that place.

Revelation 6:8:

8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth

I could be wrong and misintepreting the whole thing but to me this is what hell is about

2 Peter 2:4:
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Angelo

05-18-2006, 12:42 PM

I believe the keys that our LOrd Jesus took from Satan is the power of death.

1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Those that are in Christ was freed from the power of death.

blessed

05-18-2006, 12:59 PM

I agree on that one Angelo

AndrewMichael

05-18-2006, 04:13 PM

Man, I'm gone for half a day and i miss like twelve replies and now I'm all lost lol.....last time I walk away from my computer at night! J/K!

But, I guess I have pretty much told all the input I could think of, glad the rest seemed to bring some clearification to it.

Angelo

05-18-2006, 11:17 PM

Is it all clear now Bro? I mean are we resolved? We are not yet sure but I think we only have two options: It's either a place in the 6th dimension or Bro Trevor's more acceptable suggestion which is a place in the regions of the lost. A place where there is peace, and comfort, love is maybe, and because God is just, He can never put those good people in a place of torment. They may not be in heaven because they were not borned again, but still, because of their good works, they shall have comfort like Lazarus, and besides, they'll eventually be given eternal life in the judgment.