What was the Holy Ghost given for? [Archive]

BroTrevor

05-15-2006, 11:42 PM

I was inspired by Bro Joe C's thread about Sanctification, and felt it much more blessing if we start talking about the Holy Ghost also. Forgive me if it was too early, but it will give us more time for research.
God bless you.

ACK!!! I'm still behind on the sanctification thread!!

I will go on record saying the Holy Ghost was to empower us to be overcomers, and to put us in action manifesting the Life of Jesus Christ to this day.

Of course, there is so much more that goes along with that.

BUT....

I want to say that while yes, the Holy Ghost is our seal...(Eph 4:30...whereby ye are sealed until the day of your redemption)... I believe the Holy Ghost is sooo much more than that.

Angelo

05-16-2006, 11:26 AM

Of course, there is so much more that goes along with that.

Indeed, that was what I was pondering in my mind earlier, and I began the Lord that there should be more than that.

Then I thought it would be best that we begin by looking at the types, like Bro Branham used to say:

THE.CURTAIN.OF.TIME_ PHOENIX.AZ WEDNESDAY_ 55-0302
"... Just being a typologist, I have to kinda go back and get a line of the Old, to know what the New looks like. So I believe if I had the shadow of the thing, I'll know just about what it is when it gets here, if we see the shadow of it."

Angelo

05-16-2006, 11:28 AM

I want to say that while yes, the Holy Ghost is our seal...(Eph 4:30...whereby ye are sealed until the day of your redemption)....

It was also typed as the Oil in our lamps...

joris

05-16-2006, 11:31 AM

Holy Spirit... ;)
uhm, He's Comfortor too, Helper...

JoeC

05-16-2006, 11:49 AM

There's a whole sermon by Brother Branham entitled "What Was the Holy Ghost Given For." Has anyone listened to that recently?

joris

05-16-2006, 12:15 PM

no... is it online in text?:)

BroTrevor

05-16-2006, 12:24 PM

no... is it online in text?:)

http://66.6.218.55/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=336979348&advquery=%22what%20was%20the%20holy%20Ghost%20give n%20for%22&infobase=message2005.nfo&record={C2D3}&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg42

Right there....

Angelo

05-16-2006, 12:28 PM

There's a whole sermon by Brother Branham entitled "What Was the Holy Ghost Given For." Has anyone listened to that recently?
I did, when I started studying your "Sanctification" thread.

AndrewMichael

05-16-2006, 01:23 PM

Actually, this might seem ironic, but I just got the book for this message back yesterday! So now I can refresh my study on it and here are some things I have found.

First, It was given for a sign, to vindicate the true believer. Just as circumcision was a confromation of the promise given to Abraham's natural seed, the baptism of the Holy Ghost was given to the royal seed. "The circumcision is a type of the Holy Ghost" (tp. 59-1216, pg. 30), to show that God has vindicated that this person is a true believer with the sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Instead of the circumcision of the flesh, it's the circumcision of the heart.

Second, It was given for separation. The sign would cause the believer to be separated from the world, being vindicated by God that they are the true believer. It makes us different, think different, act different, live different, a complete separation from the things of the world. "It makes you do things that you didn't think you would do. It makes you take God's promise and believe God" (tp. 59-1216, pg. 44).

Thirs, a seal (Ephesians 4:30 Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption). The true baptism of the Holy Ghost seals you until the day of our redemption. This is how we can have the assurance that we are going to make it in the rapture, not a hope like the Amish and the Menonite, but absolute faith that God has chosen us to be His children, and "joint-heirs with Jesus (Romans 8:17)." She suffer with Him, and we will also glory with Him. This is also the seal of the doctrine of God, to prove that it is the genuine Holy Ghost, for we know the Holy Ghost can only vindicate the Word of God. The Holy Ghost is given to prove we believe the full Word of God. "When the Inspector goes through, to inspect your life, to see if you're not just a little loose about things, little loose about your prayer life, little loose about that temper, little looose about that tongue, to talk about others, He'll never seal the car. Some dirty habits, some vile things, some vulgarity mind, He can't seal the car" (tp. 59-1216, pg. 50). "But when He's found everything in its place, the Inspector, then He seals it."

I also love this quote from paragraph 51,
"That's what the Holy Spirit is. It's your assurance. It's your sign. It's your protection. It's your witness (remember this Joris). It's your seal. It's your sign, that, 'I'm Heaven bound. Don't care what the devil says! I'm Heaven bound."

Amen to that! Man, that gets me going!! Hope this has help shed some light.

blessed

05-16-2006, 01:46 PM

http://66.6.218.55/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=336979348&advquery=%22what%20was%20the%20holy%20Ghost%20give n%20for%22&infobase=message2005.nfo&record={C2D3}&softpage=Browse_Frame_Pg42

Right there....

A bit off topic, but any one knows where I can get the lyrics for the song at the end of the message linked above, I have been searching for it a while. Thanks

Angelo

05-16-2006, 04:59 PM

A bit off topic, but any one knows where I can get the lyrics for the song at the end of the message linked above, I have been searching for it a while. Thanks
If I'm not mistaken Sis Blessed it is included in the Only Believe Songbook, entitled, "The Homecoming Week".

blessed

05-16-2006, 05:01 PM

Oh..... I will look again

:D to think that i search through that book :D

JoeC

05-16-2006, 05:11 PM

no... is it online in text?:)
Here's an even spiffier link: http://thefreeword.com/books/7759-L.pdf

It's in PDF format (same as the YQNews) and has biblical references added in where Brother Branham alludes to scripture. Very cool! :thumbup:

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 12:00 AM

hey, this is just a thought but....does anyone want to bring us back on track here lol!

JoeC

05-17-2006, 01:33 AM

I think they all took time to go read up on the subject...

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 01:36 AM

I was just afraid that my post didn't get read because it's on the last page....

joris

05-17-2006, 07:12 AM

ok this won't be great
sometimes I doubt, do I have, did I get baptism in Holy Spirit? why isn't there more joy? why is life here... like it is ? There's tongues speaking, there's God sometimes speaking to me, but... ow I long for more

Didn't Jesus say, everything I say Father told me to say? Didn't Jesus say, everything I do I saw Father do? Didn't Jesus say, hey you guys you will do things even greater than I did?
That I'd long, not anymore fighting life but living with joy, experiencing His love to the fullest; Him telling me what to say as I never can find the words myself; Him telling me what to do as I always are just so unsure/insecure, not knowing what to do; Him talking just so much more to me; Him showing me this is good, and this, well if you do that, things get better

:confused: :sad:

Angelo

05-17-2006, 07:26 AM

Sorry, just got a little busy. Bro Joris, let me post a question first to Bro Andrew before I try to address your query.

Your post was powerful Bro Andrew. I think it covered almost everything. You pointed out three purposes why God gave it to the believer: (1) Was for a sign. (2) For a separation, that the person will act differently from the world.
(3) And Third, for a seal where, "we can have the assurance that we are going to make it in the rapture, not a hope like the Amish and the Menonite."

Btw, what is "the Amish and Menonite?":)

However,a question came to me regarding this sign that God will make to
the believer.

Since this sign is an act of God,

How do we know that a certain person has received this sign from God?

Is there a mark?

Angelo

05-17-2006, 07:34 AM

(O my, Here comes Bro Joris' questions, I think I'm in trouble here. Help y'guys!) :undecided:

Angelo

05-17-2006, 08:00 AM

[After gathering some strength, Bro Angelo embraces his faith no matter what the consequences may appear, and reads the qoute:]

ok this won't be great
sometimes I doubt, do I have, did I get baptism in Holy Spirit? why isn't there more joy? why is life here... like it is ? There's tongues speaking, there's God sometimes speaking to me, but... ow I long for more

Didn't Jesus say, everything I say Father told me to say? Didn't Jesus say, everything I do I saw Father do? Didn't Jesus say, hey you guys you will do things even greater than I did?
That I'd long, not anymore fighting life but living with joy, experiencing His love to the fullest; Him telling me what to say as I never can find the words myself; Him telling me what to do as I always are just so unsure/insecure, not knowing what to do; Him talking just so much more to me; Him showing me this is good, and this, well if you do that, things get better

:confused: :sad:

I corresspond to what you feel Bro Joris. In fact, I too have that question [tears moistened the eyes] :sad: . But, let us take a look at what God has promised to us.
We have weaknesses, all of us does, because we have fallen from what was supposed to be. We were made really to be happy, but we were put in a situation that we won't really enjoy, and that is exactly the good part of what life is all about.

As He said:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. John 16:20-24.

Lord Jesus Christ

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 12:02 PM

[After gathering some strength, Bro Angelo embraces his faith no matter what the consequences may appear, and reads the qoute:]

I corresspond to what you feel Bro Joris. In fact, I too have that question [tears moistened the eyes] :sad: . But, let us take a look at what God has promised to us.
We have weaknesses, all of us does, because we have fallen from what was supposed to be. We were made really to be happy, but we were put in a situation that we won't really enjoy, and that is exactly the good part of what life is all about.

As He said:

Quote:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. John 16:20-24.

Lord Jesus Christ

That was beautiful. Yes, life down here should not be so wonderful that we don't hope for the next.

That is not to say we cannot be happy here.

Joris, count your blessings my friends... it cannot be all that bad.

The devil is trying to lock you into an emotional state...but do not look to this. The Word of God is full of promises, and whether we FEEL them or not, they are truth. They need to be believed and accepted. God will move on the scene.

Tongues speaking has nothing to do with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost per se... The rain falls on the just and the un-just...it is not necessarily an indicator of having the Holy Ghost.

Recieving the Word of God for your day IS a good sign.

I would like to encourage you with this quote...

ONLY.BELIEVE_ TALLAHASSEE.FL TUESDAY_ 53-0217
E-4
Oh, my. We ought to be the happiest people on earth. Use our armor. We've got a armor. God works with us and gives us the armor. And the whole armor is on the supernatural See, see? Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, meekness, gentleness, patience is all in the supernatural. And if you let your faith loose to God's Spirit, it make--brings your body in subjection to God's redemptive blessing to you. And anything that Jesus died for, He's setting at the right hand of the Father, tonight, making intercessions upon your confession. Whatever you confess that He's done, and believe it, it's your personal property. Every believer, every person that's born again, has the right to any of the redemptive blessings.

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 12:22 PM

That was beautiful. Yes, life down here should not be so wonderful that we don't hope for the next.

That is not to say we cannot be happy here.

Joris, count your blessings my friends... it cannot be all that bad.

The devil is trying to lock you into an emotional state...but do not look to this. The Word of God is full of promises, and whether we FEEL them or not, they are truth. They need to be believed and accepted. God will move on the scene.

Tongues speaking has nothing to do with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost per se... The rain falls on the just and the un-just...it is not necessarily an indicator of having the Holy Ghost.

Recieving the Word of God for your day IS a good sign.

I would like to encourage you with this quote...

Amen to all this.... espcially that quote!

Real quick: Amish are Christians who bring santification to a whole new level (they won't even use electricity) and Menonites are a close second, but neither of them believe in Eternal Security, instead in a Eternal Hope...which is really sad...

Since this sign is an act of God,

How do we know that a certain person has received this sign from God?

Is there a mark?

I know we have a lot of signs that us as humans can look at to see if a person could have the Holy Ghost, such as a women with a dress and long hair, man that acts appropriately. The sign is ultimately to God, to see the reflection of His own nature in the believer, thus having to accept them. A lot of people get in trouble trying to find some sort of rules for knowing someone has the Holy Ghost, this flirts with legalism in my opinion. It must come by a presonal revelation. No one can tell you you have the Holy Ghost if you don't believe it yourself. You must know Christ personally.

Here was one of the vast times where I almost tested the Lord to show me if I had the Holy Ghost. I was really pondering the question, not completely sure about it, so as I was kneeling at my bed praying, I asked "Lord, give me a sign that I know I have the Holy Ghost."

I had a dream. It was about me being at my ex-girlfriend's (worldly) appratment and talking to her cousin (room mate). She was just continually telling me that I should get back together with my worldly girlfriend. Then the scene changed and I was at home and my father was telling me that I should get back with her too. When I woke up, I said "That is not God!" Before I believe I would have thought He was trying to lead me to going back to her, but I knew 2 Corinthians 6 (Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers) and acknowledge the dream as a temptation. And I remember saying "Thank you Lord!" I still test Him when I notice myself not living to the quota of what we should be at... But I do have the assurance that He lives within me and I don't have a worry about missing the rapture.

joris

05-17-2006, 02:42 PM

that quote from Jesus, it's about Him having to leave them (being the Sacrifice...) but He'll return - He wouldn't stay dead but rise up again; the joy afterwards... His return (and after that, the gift of the Spirit)
anyway... I guess what you were trying to say, hang on, it's coming? (but what is coming, then? :confused: what hasn't arrived yet then?)

Angelo

05-17-2006, 02:53 PM

I know we have a lot of signs that us as humans can look at to see if a person could have the Holy Ghost, such as a women with a dress and long hair, man that acts appropriately. The sign is ultimately to God, to see the reflection of His own nature in the believer, thus having to accept them. A lot of people get in trouble trying to find some sort of rules for knowing someone has the Holy Ghost, this flirts with legalism in my opinion. It must come by a presonal revelation. No one can tell you you have the Holy Ghost if you don't believe it yourself. You must know Christ personally.

Thank you Bro Andrew.

So we really can't tell and judge if a person has the Holy Ghost or not, but I did hear on one of Bro Branhams meeting that you can feel by the persons spirit. He said that a Christian has that welcoming spirit once you meet the person.

JoeC

05-17-2006, 03:00 PM

yeah, but even that's not definitive. The best measure is the "by their fruits you shall know them" - though that can take years to really see the full spread of someone's fruit table.

joris

05-17-2006, 03:06 PM

FreeAtLast

05-17-2006, 03:52 PM

Tongues speaking has nothing to do with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost per se... The rain falls on the just and the un-just...it is not necessarily an indicator of having the Holy Ghost.

Recieving the Word of God for your day IS a good sign.

Thousands have received the Word of God for our day (Message) - still that doesn´t mean that they´ve all got the Holy Ghost.

And I don´t think we could say speaking in Tongues has nothing to do with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost per se! Of course we know that speaking in tongues is not the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost but many times speaking in tongues accompanies the Baptism fo the Holy Ghost.

blessed

05-17-2006, 04:02 PM

I was thinking after reading freeatlast post...

Is there a difference between having the Holy Ghost and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 04:03 PM

Is there a difference between having the Holy Ghost and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Yes.............

FreeAtLast

05-17-2006, 04:05 PM

what is the difference?

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 04:10 PM

On you or in you?

Kinda like gatorade... you could dump it over you, and you feel it's cold chilling effects, but ultimately, it doesn't do much good.

But if you have it in you, then the nutrients and such inside give you strength and energy.

---------------------

Say for instance you are a good church member, and you have a gift of prophecy or speaking in tongues.. This can be an example of the Holy Spirit ON you. Remember gifts and callings are without repentence and the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

Say now that you have the baptism of the HOly Ghost in you. This means you have had a change in your life. You are no longer your own. You've had a NEW BIRTH. The seed that is now inside you is an eternal seed of God. This may cause you to speak in tongues or prophesy, but ultimately, it is a seed that is in you. You are not a tare... you are a wheat.

blessed

05-17-2006, 04:10 PM

well.. In my opinion you need the Holy Ghost to believe this message and to continue to walk in the light.. but Bro Branham often spoke of that super super anointing that to me is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost that will make us write another book of Acts.

My .01ct

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 04:11 PM

FreeAtLast

05-17-2006, 04:14 PM

BroTrevor

05-17-2006, 04:18 PM

oh okay, I see now where you make the difference.
I meant IN us when I just said the Holy Ghost.
We don´t make a difference overhere between: "Have you received the Holy Ghost" or "Have you received the baptism of the Holy Ghost".
I am sure Paul also meant IN us when he asked those ppl if they´ve received the Holy Ghost since they´ve believed...

I'll agree with you there.

Sometimes it can be terminology... there is a difference in having the gifts and having the spirit. Call it whatever...

It's not always just terminology...but sometimes it can be.

Language...bah!

AndrewMichael

05-17-2006, 04:48 PM

yeah, but even that's not definitive. The best measure is the "by their fruits you shall know them" - though that can take years to really see the full spread of someone's fruit table.

But, we still can't rest in that either. Do you remember the "Kind Old Priest" stories that Brother Branham told so many times? How that the priest would set up these tables for the purchasing of sacrifices, and that they would comfort the people, and were there to help bring the mothers and fathers back to the Lord, and yet Jesus called them the sons of the devil (If you need me quote one of these let me know). I just believe we need not to worry about others people's revelation of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, to prove that we KNOW their position with Christ. It has to happen between God and YOU presonally! Like it has been said, God has no grand-children, we must come to Him.

And I don't see what the difference is if someone has the Holy Ghost, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost....that really confuses me. A gift of the Spirit is different than the Baptism, but that person doesn't really have the Holy Ghost just because a gift was operated. I always thought the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is when God puts His Spirit in the believer, thus we would have the Holy Ghost.... Lemme know!

Angelo

05-17-2006, 04:52 PM

I believe the Bible is specific on prepositions.

Angelo

05-18-2006, 12:28 PM

Webster defines baptism as: an act, experience, or ordeal by which one is purified, sanctified, initiated, or named

Can we say then that a believer is baptized with the Holy Ghost once, but is to experience many fillings?

Angelo

05-21-2006, 11:53 PM

I've made further observations recently. I wish to have your thoughts on these also:

1. Gifts of the Holy Ghost is given for the ministry. (Gifts as: knowledge, tongues, prophecy, etc.)

2. Baptism (Quickening) of the Holy Ghost is the act of God, to purify, sanctify, and also initiates the born again experience.

3. Filling and Indwelling is the continual power given, to live a holy life by hearing and hearing- therewith renewing our minds- the Word of God through preaching of the message of the hour.

2 a : FEED, SATIATE b : SATISFY, FULFILL <fills all requirements> c : MAKE OUT, COMPLETE -- used with out or in <fill out a form> <fill in the blanks> d : to draw the playing cards necessary to complete (as a straight or flush in poker)
3 a : to occupy the whole of <smoke filled the room> b : to spread through c : to make full <a mind filled with fantasies>
4 a : to possess and perform the duties of : HOLD <fill an office> b : to place a person in <fill a vacancy>
5 : to supply as directed <fill a prescription>
6 : to cover the surface of with a layer of precious metal
intransitive senses : to become full
- fill one's shoes : to take over one's job, position, or responsibilities

Hope I gave some light here....

Jezz

05-22-2006, 03:36 AM

I've made further observations recently. I wish to have your thoughts on these also:

1. Gifts of the Holy Ghost is given for the ministry. (Gifts as: knowledge, tongues, prophecy, etc.)

2. Baptism (Quickening) of the Holy Ghost is the act of God, to purify, sanctify, and also initiates the born again experience.

3. Filling and Indwelling is the continual power given, to live a holy life by hearing and hearing- therewith renewing our minds- the Word of God through preaching of the message of the hour.

1. Gifts are put on the shelf in the Bride Age, we only want the Giver. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things".

I don't believe that Gifts are given only for the ministry, anybody can operate Mark 16. As has been mentioned before the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

2. I'm not sure that the baptism of the Holy Ghost purifies or sanctifies us. We have to have been sanctified before we can recieve the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The baptism Holy Ghost does initiate the born again experience from my understanding, I'll have to go do a Message Search to see what I can find.

FreeAtLast

05-22-2006, 05:22 AM

1. Gifts are put on the shelf in the Bride Age, we only want the Giver. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things".

Where did you get that from? That gifts are put on the shelf?
The bible and Bro. Branham do NOT teach that!!

I want the giver and the gifts.

Many times things like this are preached in message churches because we don´t have anything.
We can be dead as can be - no movement of God or whatsoever - yet we claim that we have the WORD (and that that´s enough for us).
But it is not enough.
We need to worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH.

As said before - Bro. Branham never taught that gifts are put on the shelf.
We are to be restored back to the faith of our (pentecostal) fathers. Back to the bible.
They had those gifts in operation.
I am not saying that it was the main thing - yet it was part of it.

I wonder if we are truly restored back yet!
We´d be writing another book of Acts.
Not just claiming that we have the WORD - but the Word being manifested in our lifes!!

BroTrevor

05-22-2006, 10:42 AM

I wonder if we are truly restored back yet!
We´d be writing another book of Acts.
Not just claiming that we have the WORD - but the Word being manifested in our lifes!!

boom.............

Angelo

05-23-2006, 10:14 AM

I think gifts are very essential for the perfecting of the saints. It is used by God to mold us, teach us, strengthen us.

1Corinthians 12:4-11

4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Angelo

05-23-2006, 10:21 AM

Gifts is a very interesting topic to talk about.

Care anyone to testify the blessings these gifts given to the ministry by our LOrd?

Angelo

05-23-2006, 08:19 PM

1. Gifts are put on the shelf in the Bride Age, we only want the Giver. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things".

I don't think Jezz really meant it that way. I think what was meant is that we can never major on the gifts but must have a deeper relationship with the giver. Most of the churches has relied so much on their gifts: they were blessed with it, and God used these gifts to save His people but then they tend to concentrate, and become too proud of it and forgot to move on. Like what happened to Israel in the wilderness: God let them make the brazen serpent that whosoever looked upon it will be healed. Because of the miracles, and supernatural things that they experienced, they worshipped the image instead of God; they idolized the image, and God destroyed it. So it is with gifts. We should not let it take the place of the giver.

I don't believe that Gifts are given only for the ministry, anybody can operate Mark 16. As has been mentioned before the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

I do agree with you regarding this remark. Everybody has a ministry, and everybody should earnestly desire gifts, because gifts are given to those that are found faithful with God. Paul teaches that we should earnestly desire these gifts according to each abilities. We should also consider that there we are the mechanics and God takes care of the dynamics.

God bless you....:)

(How fun it is to talk about the Word of God!)

joris

05-23-2006, 08:40 PM

like someone said the other day, the gifts God gives, they are to minister others - in fact, they aren't for you at all - they are for them... God serving them... through your hands, through your voice, etc :)

Jezz

05-23-2006, 09:32 PM

THE.WORKS.THAT.I.DO.BEAR.WITNESS.OF.ME_ PHOENIX.AZ FRIDAY_ 51-0413
Now, we pass over those things. These great words that we learn, and things that we do, and gifts, and everything, that's fine, but you'd better get the Giver before you start after the gifts.

FAITH.IS.THE.SUBSTANCE_ LA.CA TUESDAY_ 51-0508
But after all that, I want Jesus. I--I want it. His gifts are fine, but I want the Giver in here. See? That's right.

WHERE.I.THINK.PENTECOST.FAILED_ SAN.FERNANDO.CA FRIDAY_ 55-1111
But all those gifts are wonderful; they're dandy; and we love them all. God grant that every one of us would have every gift, but I'd rather have the Giver than all the gifts. Paul said, "You... though I could have the gifts, without the Giver..."

DEBATE.ON.TONGUES_ YAKIMA.WA SUNDAY_ 60-0807
Now, we know that the Holy Spirit is God. We have to admit that. See? That's God. Well then, God is love. See? So you can have any of the gifts of God without having God. God is love, and Satan can impersonate any of those gifts. See? See, he can impersonate pretty near anything 'cause he perverts. Sin is righteousness perverted.

HEBREWS.CHAPTER.SIX.2_ JEFF.IN HEB SUNDAY_ 57-0908E
But don't go to seed on those gifts. Don't pay any attention to the gift. If God wants to use you for something, He will do it. But, look after the Giver.

THE.UNPARDONABLE.SIN_ JEFF.IN V-26 N-8 SUNDAY_ 54-1024
243 And you all, get the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Let's be one big happy family. Then don't come in, saying, "Well, I got the Holy Ghost; glory to God, I'm going to have gifts now." Just let the gifts alone; they'll take care of theirself. See? God, when He sees He wants to use you for something, He will tell you what to do, and go do it. Don't seek gifts. Seek the Giver. Come in and receive the Holy Spirit. I believe we're going to have a wonderful time, don't you?

I don't think we shouldn't have gifts, shouldn't use gifts, but the Giver is what we are after. The rest takes care of itself. When the time is right the Bride will write its own book of Acts.

AndrewMichael

05-24-2006, 12:19 AM

Andrew's two cents.... let's gooO!!!

I definitely believe we are after the Giver of gifts and not the gifts themselves. I also strongly believe people use the "the gifts have to dimish" as a crutch :y10: to why they do not have to be as spiritual as they used to be, that we don't need to shout AMEN and don't need to be excited about church and we can just mope on in and mope on out...

I believe the gifts have to dimish and we must believe outside of anything outside of God's Word....buuut I also believe the gifts are there to vindicate that we are the true Bride of Jesus Christ. As in all things, God works in the balance between fantacism and legalism... at least in my experiences.

FreeAtLast

05-24-2006, 04:56 AM

Andrew's two cents.... let's gooO!!!

I definitely believe we are after the Giver of gifts and not the gifts themselves. I also strongly believe people use the "the gifts have to dimish" as a crutch :y10: to why they do not have to be as spiritual as they used to be, that we don't need to shout AMEN and don't need to be excited about church and we can just mope on in and mope on out...

I believe the gifts have to dimish and we must believe outside of anything outside of God's Word...buuut I also believe the gifts are there to vindicate that we are the true Bride of Jesus Christ. As in all things, God works in the balance between fantacism and legalism... at least in my experiences.

What do you mean with that?
Believing outside of God´s Word???

AndrewMichael

05-24-2006, 06:47 AM

What do you mean with that?
Believing outside of God´s Word???

Too many outside's there... We must believe solely on the Word of God. Sorry about that.

Angelo

05-24-2006, 07:36 AM

THE.WORKS.THAT.I.DO.BEAR.WITNESS.OF.ME_ PHOENIX.AZ FRIDAY_ 51-0413
Now, we pass over those things. These great words that we learn, and things that we do, and gifts, and everything, that's fine, but you'd better get the Giver before you start after the gifts.

Wonderful quote! As Bro AndrewMichael said:

As in all things, God works in the balance between fantacism and legalism... at least in my experiences.
So we can say that one can minister, and have effective ministry for the gifts:
...word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge; to another faith; to another the gifts of healing; working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
...and take a hold of Sword of the Lord, only after he has truly received Christ (the Giver) in His life. But, still, we must consider ordination: The mechanics must always come with the dynamics.

Angelo

05-26-2006, 11:55 AM

I apologize if I gave some confusion there.

I found this really something to think about, please be patient with me. :)

As said before - Bro. Branham never taught that gifts are put on the shelf.
We are to be restored back to the faith of our (pentecostal) fathers. Back to the bible.
They had those gifts in operation.
I am not saying that it was the main thing - yet it was part of it.

Come to think of it, if gifts are not sent before the giver, how then will the ppl give attention on the Giver? Not that we'll receive the giver because of the gifts, but by these gifts it will just prove and reveal more about the Giver.

So gifts come first, before the Giver to raise the faith of the ppl. Bro Branham probably speaks to the church in that manner because it is no longer the right time to dwell on the gifts, but on the Giver being revealed before the people.

But we must still consider:

Do these gifts no longer work through the church and are no longer necessary since we are in a more deeper age, and relationship with Christ?

How do we distinguish gifts?

Is the five fold ministry, gifts or not?

BroTrevor

05-26-2006, 12:37 PM

Do these gifts no longer work through the church and are no longer necessary since we are in a more deeper age, and relationship with Christ?

How do we distinguish gifts?

Is the five fold ministry, gifts or not?

distinguishing gifts....

I CORINTHIANS 12:4
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

(quick note from Trevor... there's no time period listed here. Just says "given to every man" continue on...)

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Do you still believe in healing?? If you believe that healing still happens today (I certainly do) then you MUST believe the rest of the gifts are in effect or you are picking and choosing what you want out of I Chor 12 here

5 fold ministry I believe are callings and different from gifts in some way. You don't have to be called to be part of the 5 fold to have a gift of healing... but if you have a gift of healing, that doesn't mean you should preach.

blessed

05-26-2006, 12:50 PM

The five fold ministry is for the perfecting of the bride

Ephesians 4 :
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

joris

05-26-2006, 06:50 PM

Do these gifts no longer work through the church and are no longer necessary since we are in a more deeper age, and relationship with Christ?All the gifts stay as long as it's time of grace (something like that?:confused:)

sure as long as there are sick, there's need for healing... sure as long as not everyone believes Jesus' sacrifice, there's need for evangelism...
Well that's what I think; God does not change, and He'll come towards people in need just like He did before

AndrewMichael

05-27-2006, 12:23 AM

All the gifts stay as long as it's time of grace (something like that?:confused:)

sure as long as there are sick, there's need for healing... sure as long as not everyone believes Jesus' sacrifice, there's need for evangelism...
Well that's what I think; God does not change, and He'll come towards people in need just like He did before

Amen! I believe we need the gifts to keep us clean and holy; whether it be healing, ministry, or even song leading, all the offices and gifts God has given us are because we need them. I believe a song leaders position, the piano player, even the video camera man, are all callings that God has given to people. Some might think them as much, but these people have a great responsibility and duty to Christ, to a certain degree as a minister would. Of course, I believe a minister must know he is called, but I do also believe a song leader must know God wants him to lead before he does....

As for signs... I believe it has two factors. One, the gifts must decrease because we need to believe with a greater faith than any generation, and two, we just aren't as sincere as in the days of the prophet... I know I don't pray like Brother Branham, and I need to start getting my life more focused. This Bride will be Jesus Christ on display, and I want that kind of devotion to deserve to have the title "Christian"...

joris

05-27-2006, 06:54 AM

As for signs... I believe it has two factors. One, the gifts must decrease because we need to believe with a greater faith than any generation, and two, we just aren't as sincere as in the days of the prophet... I know I don't pray like Brother Branham, and I need to start getting my life more focused. This Bride will be Jesus Christ on display, and I want that kind of devotion to deserve to have the title "Christian"...:confused: no! I think, gifts won't decrease, they will increase... Jesus was doing a lot, and He said the discipels (that's us) will do even more (yeah I know past hasn't been showing much of that; but hey, His Word is true)
Branham as prophet, God used him for great signs too

The word says signs will follow the discipels; I don't know what will be changing, I guess God's purifying the body? But I sure believe this to be true for today and this period, that signs will, again, be following us discipels

( :embarrassed: sorry if this is all nonsence)

Angelo

05-27-2006, 08:18 AM

(yeah I know past hasn't been showing much of that; but hey, His Word is true)
Branham as prophet, God used him for great signs too

The word says signs will follow the discipels; I don't know what will be changing, I guess God's purifying the body? But I sure believe this to be true for today and this period, that signs will, again, be following us discipels

( :embarrassed: sorry if this is all nonsence)
It is very sensible Bro Joris.

The Lord will manifest and pour His blessings according to every individual needs, and that I applies to the new comer and the old, and of course not everyone has the same degree of faith.

I think how we should look at Bro Branham's time from today is that, gifts were overflowing in His time because it was the time of introducing the Word to the world. Like a king that will come and visit another kingdom, does he not bring gifts before his coming? Well, we have seen his introduction by the prophets ministry, what is happening now is a conferrence within the chosen ones, but that doesn't mean that He has ceased from giving gifts.

(I wish I made sense.)

BroTrevor

05-27-2006, 10:34 AM

It is very sensible Bro Joris.

The Lord will manifest and pour His blessings according to every individual needs, and that I applies to the new comer and the old, and of course not everyone has the same degree of faith.

I think how we should look at Bro Branham's time from today is that, gifts were overflowing in His time because it was the time of introducing the Word to the world. Like a king that will come and visit another kingdom, does he not bring gifts before his coming? Well, we have seen his introduction by the prophets ministry, what is happening now is a conferrence within the chosen ones, but that doesn't mean that He has ceased from giving gifts.

(I wish I made sense.)

I think you made sense. I follow.

When Bro Branham was here, we had signs to attract attention to the voice of the signs... The important thing was the Voice.

Now, gifts may have appeared to lessen because the messenger for the age is not here, but I do not believe they are done away with. I believe they are in God's true church as she is the "final voice to the final age". (which means she'll say the same thing as any previous "voices")