bible text questions

[joris]

ok let's have this topic for bible-text-questions

The other day I read some (reading with some book giving text suggestions, kind of grouping texts in "topics")
The thing was Matthew 22:1-14 - and the thing I didn't get was, "who" was that man who got in but didn't have wedding cloths

(hmm, should we post the text part we ask about? what translation?)

[BroTrevor]

Joris really comes up with some good questions....

[Angelo]

Indubitably! :thumbup:
Matthew 22 (Amplified)
1 AND AGAIN Jesus spoke to them in parables (comparisons, stories used to illustrate and explain), saying,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like a king who gave a wedding banquet for his son
3 And sent his servants to summon those who had been invited to the wedding banquet, but they refused to come.
4 Again he sent other servants, saying, Tell those who are invited, Behold, I have prepared my banquet; my bullocks and my fat calves are killed, and everything is prepared; come to the wedding feast.
5 But they were not concerned and paid no attention [they ignored and made light of the summons, treating it with contempt] and they went away--one to his farm, another to his business,
6 While the others seized his servants, treated them shamefully, and put them to death.
7 [Hearing this] the king was infuriated; and he sent his soldiers and put those murderers to death and burned their city.
8 Then he said to his servants, The wedding [feast] is prepared, but those invited were not worthy.
9 So go to the thoroughfares where they leave the city [where the main roads and those from the country end] and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.
10 And those servants went out on the crossroads and got together as many as they found, both bad and good, so [the room in which] the wedding feast [was held] was filled with guests.
11 But when the king came in to view the guests, he looked intently at a man there who had on wedding garment.
12 And he said, Friend, how did you come in here without putting on the [appropriate] wedding garment? And he was speechless ([a]muzzled, gagged).
13 Then the king said to the attendants, Tie him hand and foot, and throw him into the darkness outside; there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.
14 For many are called (invited and summoned), but few are chosen.

[AndrewMichael]

I've always thought of him as the man who doesn't come to God God's provided way. Seeks his own ways of gaining the blessings of God. If you look at the customs (at least I'm pretty sure about this), if people were invited to a wedding, the greeter at the door would give each guest a wedding garnment. To be in the feast without a wedding garment meant that the man came in some other way than the door (God's provided way). Like a man who tries to accept God on a mental conception, or believes due to feelings, not in a divine, personal, revelation of God's Word. Just my thoughts on it, even though I know there's a lot of Message on it too, just don't know where for sure.

[Angelo]

I agree to that.

And can we also type him as the Foolish Virgins?

[joris]

uhm :confused: I don't really see how one could enter the kingdom of God without believe - and if there's believe, how then is it "wrong" :confused: sorry I don't really see that yet, though maybe I misunderstood what you meant to say
I'm quite interested in the writings of Branham on this too, if he wrote about this

[jtucker]

you could go to branham.com and do a message search, or you could ask your pastor for help finding them. Hoep you find the encouragement and answers for the questions. God bless Friend

[Angelo]

uhm :confused: I don't really see how one could enter the kingdom of God without believe - and if there's believe, how then is it "wrong"
Or "not enough" would be more appropriate. You probably are referring to Bro AndrewMichael's:

Like a man who tries to accept God on a mental conception, or believes due to feelings, not in a divine, personal, revelation of God's Word.
A good example Bro Branham uses is Acts 9:1-5
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[JoeC]

uhm :confused: I don't really see how one could enter the kingdom of God without believe - and if there's believe, how then is it "wrong" :confused: sorry I don't really see that yet, though maybe I misunderstood what you meant to say
I'm quite interested in the writings of Branham on this too, if he wrote about this
Well, everyone kinda gets into Heaven... at least as far as the throne room. Maybe coming before the wedding's lord was symbolic of this?

[AndrewMichael]

Well, I believe it has a lot to do with the foolish virgin (the saved without the Holy Ghost). They try to come to God come other way, by the above I stated, or even by a denomination, creed, dogma, etc., instead of being filled with the Holy Ghost. They can get into the kingdom (saved) but they are throw out (not raptured) into utter darkness, or the tribulation. They might even recieve some blessings of God but sooner of later, their lack of having the Holy Ghost will show.....maybe that helps a little bit. Just because you believe doesn't mean you have the Holy Ghost.

[redeemed]

in Pilgrims Progress this is mentioned a lot. people coming in over the wall instead of in the wicket gate. i recommend listing to that if you haven't.

[BroTrevor]

Caveat: I could be wrong on this one.


That being said...

I just can't see this parable as being anything other than a parable. There is one way (Jesus Christ) to get to that wedding supper. I don't really see as how this is a "type" Jesus was speaking about. I think it was plain and simple a parable about

1) there is only 1 way to get there
2) even if there were more than 1 way, why wouldn't you have the wedding garment on.
3) even if you were there wrong, and didn't have the wedding garment on, you'd still miss it.

Perhaps it was something to those who try to by their own works and deeds, and not by love for Jesus Christ, to think on.

Again, I could be wrong, but I really see this as a plain and simple story. When the Lord comes to take us all to the wedding supper, I really don't think there will be anyone without the wedding garment on that will be there that will need to be cast out.

[Bradley]

I agree with Trevor. And, if there's any literal casting out that takes place, my understanding is it will happen to those at the Judgement...when Jesus says "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never even knew you." Cuz they said, "Lord we casted out devils in your name...etc...." *Paraphrasing obviously*

[AndrewMichael]

I take it as more than a parable, Jesus wasn't just telling a story. I believe the guest got into the event (heavenly places that we spend on this side) but was cast out due to not coming to the Lord His provided way. The foolish virgin does this, and are cast into the tribulation, and possibly also symbolizing the sinners being casted into hell, even in the midst of their works. There is only one way to the true Salvation of God and you must come by the Word of God, having the garment of the Word on you, but people can sneak around and try to obtain the blessings of God through a different way, and thus they will be punished for it.

[NeedGod]

bro. T, thats really a nice way to put it. i am looking for the garment.and i will find it, so God help me

[Angelo]

I take it as more than a parable, Jesus wasn't just telling a story. I believe the guest got into the event (heavenly places that we spend on this side) but was cast out due to not coming to the Lord His provided way. The foolish virgin does this, and are cast into the tribulation, and possibly also symbolizing the sinners being casted into hell, even in the midst of their works. There is only one way to the true Salvation of God and you must come by the Word of God, having the garment of the Word on you, but people can sneak around and try to obtain the blessings of God through a different way, and thus they will be punished for it.
I second that, because I believe we are now spiritually experiencing a wedding. Bro Branham tought that we need to get divorced with our natural husband and marry Christ The Word. The marriage happens here, and the supper is served in heaven.

[joris]

I second that, because I believe we are now spiritually experiencing a wedding. Bro Branham tought that we need to get divorced with our natural husband and marry Christ The Word. The marriage happens here, and the supper is served in heaven.we are? :)

[BroTrevor]

we are? :)

Well, it does make sense doesn't it Joris?

I mean, we are to be going to the wedding supper (which takes place after the wedding) when Jesus comes to get us. At some point before this, we need to be married to Him.

[AndrewMichael]

It's called "The Marriage Supper." The supper happens after the wedding, we must be married to Christ here (filled with the Holy Ghost) and become a part of the Lord, or else we will not be raptured. Being a part of the Body of Christ is the same as being part of the Bride of Christ, we must become a part of Him, "the twain shall become one flesh," just like how natural marriage brings two people together, our spiritual marriage makes us one with Christ, thus married in this life.

[JoeC]

I've said it before in the Study Hall Guidlines, but just as a reminder folks, please reference what you are quoting. Even scripture verses which you think are commonly, not all of us are familiar with. For the sake of those who are still new, please reference a thought that you are getting from some place other than your own head. Do this if you want it to have any authoritative weight. Be especially careful of Message "buzz words."

EX: Where is the scripture does it talk about the marriage supper?

The concludes today's Public Service Announcement.


Moving right along...

My $0.02 on what Brother Trevor said: Parables are essentially literary analogies. Being analogies, we can't expect them to match what they're being typed to in every sense and every facet of the analogy 100% of the time. The basic thing that Jesus was driving at holds true - that Jesus is the one and only way. You begin to get on thin ice when scrutinizing a parable for "deeper things," and you certainly can't substantiate whatever you find in your scrutiny of the parable without collaborating scripture. I think everyone understands what I'm driving at.

[Angelo]

Praise God. Amen.

[joris]

My $0.02 on what Brother Trevor said: Parables are essentially literary analogies. Being analogies, we can't expect them to match what they're being typed to in every sense and every facet of the analogy 100% of the time. The basic thing that Jesus was driving at holds true - that Jesus is the one and only way. You begin to get on thin ice when scrutinizing a parable for "deeper things," and you certainly can't substantiate whatever you find in your scrutiny of the parable without collaborating scripture. I think everyone understands what I'm driving at.uhm yes, but there sure is a reason why that man was mentioned; Jesus could just have left that one out - but that man, and throwing him out, as a final remark... it doesn't seem to be just a joke to melt the ice or so ;)

[JoeC]

Granted. So, does anyone know what the wedding garment symbolizes elsewhere in the Bible...?

[joris]

just now I need to think of that text in bible where Jesus says I'll give you cloths...
rev3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou
mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame
of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou
mayest see.
but maybe that's something else completely

[Angelo]

That's undoubtedly the exact scripture. :ok:

[AndrewMichael]

(tp. 53-0403, pg. 63, 66)
"Jesus taught that famous parable, when He was here on earth. He said the wedding supper was made and--and every man was given a—a garment, and he found one man there without a garment. He said, "Friend, what are you... How--how comes you haven't got a garment?
Now, the oriental custom of that, when the bridegroom invited every person, he put--he invited. If he invited fifty people, then he had fifty robes. And he stood someone at the door, and every time a man come in, rich or poor, he put the robe on him. Then no one knew whether they was rich or poor. He, all looked the same under a robe.
And that's the way God does today. He gives the Holy Spirit; which is a type. Every man that He invites, we're all the same; not this one 'cause a little better than the other one, and that one a little higher than this one. We're all the same in the sight of God, everyone that's invited to the wedding supper."

"Then when he came in and he found one man now... Now, there's only one door to come through, because there's where the garments was given out. And he found a man at the supper table, without a garment on. He said, "Friend, what's you doing here? Why haven't you got a garment on?" And the man was speechless. He came in by a window, some other way. He didn't come by the door.
And every man that comes by Christ, into the Body of Christ, receives the Holy Spirit, the Robe. He's standing right there, to put It on you, just as soon as you come in. See? That's what He's promised and that's what He does."

(tp. 53-0613, E-22)
"He come in some other way besides of the door. And Jesus said, "Friend, what are you doing here?" And he was speechless. And you try to climb up your own moral stepladder or by some creed or some church, brother, you're going to find yourself the same way. Every man that comes by the Door is going to get the same robe. And that robe is the baptism of the Holy Ghost."

The garment is the baptism of the Holy Ghost. We have to all agree this man got in, and it was by one of the ways mentioned above. Jesus called him "Friend." This could be like how Jesus called Judas "Friend," or it could be as Jesus calls any person that will listen to him "Friend" because He is a perfect gentleman. This man did not come God's provided way and recieve his wedding garment (which is a type of the baptism of the Holy Ghost).

This would type the Foolish Virgin prety closely. They are saved, they just don't have the Holy Ghost. This is confusing for most people but it will happen. Also, in the story of the Foolish Virgins, Matthew 25:

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

We know that God loves the foolish virgin too, and through the Message we know she will be saved, so when He sasy "I know you not," is because they do not have the Holy Ghost that reflects Jesus Christ back to God. The Bride, wise virgins, do. So this man being cast into utter darkness easily fits the tribulation (which we cannot even comprehend the severity of...)

[joris]

I decided I should put this here, not to disturb the (prayer) thread the quote is coming from...
Actually, you have already overcome, you just need your body to catch up with your theophany body.what's a "theophany"/"theophany body"? :confused:

[marichino_freedom]

the "theophany" is the spiritual, perfected "body" that you aqcuire after dying......


this is the simplest way i know how to put it.....correct me if i am wrong, someone.

[leahmb]

Sounds good Mary...here's a few quotes I found.

-LIFE_ JEFF.IN SUNDAY_ 57-0602
E-23 "...And then when we die from this life, we go into the body which...If this earthy tabernacle is dissolved, we have a theophany to go into, a body celestial."

-THIRSTING.FOR.LIFE_ CHICAGO.IL SUNDAY_ 57-0630
E-12 It's a body that doesn't have a spirit in it. It's a body that's waiting for you Christians. As soon as the life leaves this, you go into that body. When this earthly tabernacle be dissolved, we have one already waiting, a theophany.

-2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

[joris]

Some link, that was removed lately, was a site that had a whole lot pages, answering many questions of different types. It was by a man, a christian, who, wrote in a way, not only answering, also showing he cared, and could feel for, those who are in (emotional) pain. Going really into that, it's really helpfull
Anyway -- so I'm wondering, why wouldn't Branham do that? As, his testimony explicitly states he went through a time of severe (emotional) pain, even that far that he longed to take his own life (and it being a miracle he survived an attempt to do so) I don't get it.

[Angellica]

Some link, that was removed lately, was a site that had a whole lot pages, answering many questions of different types. It was by a man, a christian, who, wrote in a way, not only answering, also showing he cared, and could feel for, those who are in (emotional) pain. Going really into that, it's really helpfull
Anyway -- so I'm wondering, why wouldn't Branham do that? As, his testimony explicitly states he went through a time of severe (emotional) pain, even that far that he longed to take his own life (and it being a miracle he survived an attempt to do so) I don't get it.


Ever Heard of something like the COD? Or that allyour questions re in the spoken word?

[Angellica]

I agree with Trevor. And, if there's any literal casting out that takes place, my understanding is it will happen to those at the Judgement...when Jesus says "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never even knew you." Cuz they said, "Lord we casted out devils in your name...etc...." *Paraphrasing obviously*

You said what I wanted to say! Br. Branham kept saying that even the Devil can speak in tongues, he could even relate a story that witches could even interpret tongues! But that doesn't make them right. So one can believe, but believe wrong.

[joris]

Ever Heard of something like the COD? Or that allyour questions re in the spoken word?I heard that before, and, while the answers are in the bible, it's... that might well be true, I get the idea it hard to get to them and you need revelation.
I don't really know what "the COD" is

[leahmb]

COD is a message, Church, Order, Doctrine that Brother Branham spoke.

I saw at the beginning of this thread that someone mentioned the online message search. I would recommend it to everyone. I use it quite often and for me, it's simpler to operate than the computer version. The address is branham.org then you go to message search on the left.