Huckleberry Finn

[Mick_Mack89]

In my English class we just read this and then we had an interesting disscussion on it. Apperently to many people Huckleberry Finn is a very racist book. Some school districts and libraries have actually banned the book because of how some people think that the book is racist. I was wondering, do any of you guys have an opinion on this? I read the book and didn't feel any racism at all in it. But I haven't heard a very good argument for either side so I'm still kind of undecided. What do you people think?

[AgapZoe]

huh? huckleberry finn?
well, mick mack...i could say that huckleberry finn is a work of literatue and it's open to objectivity. the way you interpret or understand or view it won't necesarily be the same way someone else will. i myself i considered the book an interesting and enlightening work of literature but well, come to think of it? anyone who's quite sensitive to matters concerning racism could actually term it as a, racist thing!!!but well, let's hear what others have to say about it, will come in later with my views........

[trumpetplayer]

While I havent read Huckleberry Finn in a while I did not remember anything to racist. However I could see were people could maybe see some things as racist. What people got to understand that books that were written 80 or 100 years ago can seem to be racist but really arent, its just the way it was back then. Unfortunatelly when Mark Twain wrote his book racism was very prevalent.

On a side note I also heard that Mark Twain was a athiest.

[AgapZoe]

hey mick mack, you could always try out the link on huckleberry finn: just type huckleberry finn's essays and you'll get the infor on racism..and anyone else who's interested! i am interested and well, i just did that. below is an extract from the site:
-actually the site is www.needfreessays.com
Huckleberry Finn
Huckleberry Finn Essay The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is a classic American novel, yet it seems that it is always under great controversy. The controversies surrounding this novel include the common us of the “N” word and the way African Americans are treated. Many people see this novel as racist, but in fact Mark Twain wrote the book to satire slavery. In defense The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is not a racist novel and it should be taught in schools throughout America. The author Mark Twain, an accomplished writer, did not intend to cause controversy with his book The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. The story line of the novel proves that t
Approximate Word count = 444
Approximate Pages = 2 (250 words per page double spaced)

[cdnjava]

I remember reading Huck Finn in highschool (man, that was a while ago...) and from what I recall it wasn't so much racist as it was a commentary on our own perceptions about racism. There are some pretty deep analogies in the book (ie Huck's journey down the river = our journey thru life).

[Mick_Mack89]

Yeah, when I first read it I didn't feel any racism in it. But I am a white male, what I feel could be alot different than some who is a minority. Also all the blacks in the book aren't very clever. I mean they're all gullible and superstitous. While Jim isn't made out to be mean or cruel at all, in fact he is very kind and loyal, he is just kind of seems... I don't know, just not up and on the ball if you know what I mean.

[Babyruth]

I read Huckleberry Finn last year in Honors English. We analyzed it a lot and made some really good comments and observations, but I don't remember much. I do remember that there was a ton of irony. I had some good worksheets, but I recycled them at the end of the year.

[PianoMan79]

Well, I have noticed that, in all aspects of culture and education, we are becoming - at least in my opinion - an overly "politically correct" society. It only takes one or two people to make a comment like, "The book is racist," and it immediately disappears off of library shelves. I have often wondered how children can learn in this politically charged environment.
I read it back in high school (a few years ago!), and didn't find anything wrong with it. I guess I would have to hear the argument and revisit the book to understand that point of view.
Anyway, I guess I will get off my soapbox now!

[Babyruth]

I totally agree with you Pianoman! We try so hard to be politically correct and to treat everyone fairly that we leave out everyone except for the the minorities. We want the minorities to have equal opportunities, but we end up giving them more rights than everyone else.

[NeedGod]

you know, itmay seem not racist to some and be entirely racist to others. listen, dont blame those who think it is racist, they may actually feel it. once someone has faced racism, they tend to look at things from an entirely different perspective. i once had an indian boyfriend and he was ashamed for his friends to know he was seeing me. so nowadays, i read into things that indians do badly and i have to remind myself often that it was not what was meant by them.
see? and also, i am in an ausi university and whenever anyone from here passes real well, they question it, so people are sensitive to it because they feel that people believe we cant pass because we are black, see? but it isnt like that, at least i hope not.
so when a black who has faced racism tells me huckleberry finn is racist, i understand and when i look at it from the black point of view, it is there, i see it. but i also look at it from mark twain's point of view and i see he meant well. fine, so the blacks were abit slow in the story and needed a small boy to think for them. well, thats a flaw but you have to say mark twain did try, in that era, to do something against slavery.
so what am i saying, understand! people have gone through things in life that makes them look at things differently. i have to say, i found it vaguely racist at first in the way blacks were made out to be stupid and if i didnt look at it objectively, i would still have been looking at it thus.

[NeedGod]

I totally agree with you Pianoman! We try so hard to be politically correct and to treat everyone fairly that we leave out everyone except for the the minorities. We want the minorities to have equal opportunities, but we end up giving them more rights than everyone else.
i dont know if that is possible:) . either way, i think it is good to be sensitive to the feelings of others. especially the minorities. maybe i am saying this because i am black, i dont know. either way, i think the minorities, especially those sides of USA and its surroundings have really gone through much and they are bound to feel things others may not. even here, the effect of colonialism and apartheid are still felt and people have to be careful not to offend.
at times,as the majority, it may not seem like there is anything wrong with what is going on, but for a majority, it is a sensitive situation. i dont have any authority to say that but i think in the issue of racism, the minorities have to be handled carefully, even if it means going extreme. small things which may seem harmless hurt alot and the mind usually involuntarily goes back to the racism. one wonders if its because they are what they are.
maybe, as i said, i am saying these things because i am black and i have seen and felt things i shouldnt, all in all, i know that if it wasnt for the blood of Jesus, i would be bitter about so many things and people from other races who treat blacks so badly because of the things i read and see happening.
for example a certain Lord who lives in our country shot a man, but he was let off. other people from other races gettreated better because they are from other races and when a black goes somewhere, thy arent treated as well. some years back, when clinton came to africa, his sniffer dogs were even taken to smell out the president of Tanzania i hear. it takes a lot for a president to withstand that. but thing is, clinton didnt mean badly, it was just precaution or a mistake. recently someone offered to bring dogfood to feed children in our country(kenya) who are starving. it wasnt meant badly, she felt bad and since she deals with dog food, maybe she felt it was ok. i dont know, all i know is we should look at things from everyones perspective

[NeedGod]

i am sorry, i didnt mean to sound so biterin the former two posts. forgive me. i was trying to give out my point of view and it all just came welling out.

[PianoMan79]

Let me clarify my statement. I am not a racist. I respect everyone, regardless of ethnicity. Part of why I do this is because I understand what it is like to be discriminated against (but that's an entirely different subject, which I won't get into right now). My main point was that students should be able to be exposed to great works of literature, art, music, etc., and judge for themselves; rather than having, say, a school board tell them. As I said, I cannot accurately judge as it has been a while since I read the book.
I apologize if I have offended anyone by my previous post.
Nick

[BroTrevor]

and judge for themselves; rather than having, say, a school board tell them.

Hrmm...from a spiritual aspect...it sounds kinda like nicolatianism....

[trumpetplayer]

manwacha thanks for your insite. I think as caucasions we can be too insensative to other ethnicites. I have found myself even thinking of stereotypes when I see certain races then I stop myself and say what right have I to judge. Even with kids from church ive heard racist jokes and it makes me mad. People dont realize what there saying sometimes.

But to Mark Twains defence I believe he had certain stereotypes in his mind from that time period and this is reflected in his writing.

[desertroses]

Authors that hold certain stereotypes, will often reflect it in their writings. Take for example the media. Countless of articles in the newspaper never fail to depict a certain race/ethnicity in a certain way. I think people need to get over themselves and see that every race and culture is beautiful and that one is not better than another. That's my opinion and it's troubling that it's not reflected in reality. I totally understand what you mean namwacha. I was born in Canada, however my parents' lineage goes back to India; I also have Serian and Spanish roots. Personally I have never been discriminated against, however you see the effects of racism all the time...esp. in saluted works such as Huckleberry Finn.

[JoeC]

I think people need to get over themselves and see that every race and culture is beautiful and that one is not better than another. That's my opinion and it's troubling that it's not reflected in reality.

What about the race of Ishmael? I've heard some people justify prejudices against Arabs through this... what do you think?

[Babyruth]

All really good points here. I hope I didn't sound racist either, because I'm not and hate it when people make those comment about each other too, trumpetplayer. As corny as this may sound, I am in the Multicultural Club at school. We have a very large Hispanic population, among others, and people are extremely racist here. I think it is because the founders of my community were white and they were really racist. The kids get it from their parents and it's pretty terrible. The club is awesome and I love it. I feel way too many people are racist, even my family. I think everyone should get equal rights and be treated the same, right in line with the Bible. But, I think in America, we try so hard to have everyone have equal rights and be treated fairly and such that we leave out the "majorities." Like with God being in America. America was based and founded on God and Godly principles. They came for religious freedom, but have turned it so that God is out and everything else is in. Colleges here have to fill a quota, they have to have a certain percentage whilte, black, chinese, etc. I don't think that's right. I think it should be based purely on academic achievement. Does this make more sense? Or did I just confuse you all?

[desertroses]

What about the race of Ishmael? I've heard some people justify prejudices against Arabs through this... what do you think?

As I have said before, one race is not better than another, and I hold true to that. One colour of skin is not better than another, etc. With the race of Ishmael, it is not a matter of race, but a matter of religion. I think you could say, it's how certain members of that group believe, and what they believe in... However I don't believe one could pin a certain assumption on the entire race. God's seed resides in every race. There are many Arabs that claim Christianity...so we can't generalize.

Hope this makes some sense. Tell me what you think...

[trumpetplayer]

That does make sense Ruth. And I dont think it is corny to be in the multicultural club. I agree with you view but however quotas can be good because depending on the enviroment it can be hard to come out as a educated person. Someone who grows up in a middle-upper class Caucasion neighborhood has far better chances to get an education then a Afro American person who grows up in a ghetto. Its sad that generation after generation certain ethnicities are being put down.

With regards to racist feelings from many adults about many immigrant groups what Caucasion people must realize that we were all immigrants at some time, and that we stole the land from the Native inhabitants that had lived there for thousands of years. As long as a immigrant is willing to learn the language and become a productive member of society I will give them my respect.

The problem is Caucasion youth in Canada and America are getting lazy thus they blame other races when they excell through hard work. Just because your ancestors were here for 200 years does not make you more of a citizen then someone whos been here 5 years.

Well I digress, but Jesus loves all the children, red and yellow black and white they are precious in his site. And we are to be Christ like. Remember this next time you say a racist joke or start to stereotype someone.

[desertroses]

Someone who grows up in a middle-upper class Caucasion neighborhood has far better chances to get an education then a Afro American person who grows up in a ghetto. Its sad that generation after generation certain ethnicities are being put down.

With regards to racist feelings from many adults about many immigrant groups what Caucasion people must realize that we were all immigrants at some time, and that we stole the land from the Native inhabitants that had lived there for thousands of years. As long as a immigrant is willing to learn the language and become a productive member of society I will give them my respect.

The problem is Caucasion youth in Canada and America are getting lazy thus they blame other races when they excell through hard work. Just because your ancestors were here for 200 years does not make you more of a citizen then someone whos been here 5 years.

Well I digress, but Jesus loves all the children, red and yellow black and white they are precious in his site. And we are to be Christ like. Remember this next time you say a racist joke or start to stereotype someone.


Very powerful. I agree with you. Many Caucasions fail to remember that they are immigrants too. The real Canadians and Americans are the Native peoples that live here long before the Europeans came (this is not a history lesson)... but I applaud your post. More awareness is needed on these lines. The older generation is pretty much fixed in their mentalities of people who are different then themselves. So the more young people that are exposed to other cultural groups through education, experiences etc. the better. Makes for a better tomorrow.

[redeemed_lizzi]

I have never read Huckleberry Finn but I vaguely remember seeing the film when I was younger. I don't remember being mortally or even slightly offended by anything. When studying literature I think you need to read it in the genre and the spirit it was written in. If Mark Twain was a racist, then he was one in many and not a lone pirannha. I agree with Pianoman, in that society has become too politically correct and oversensitive. The quicker people realise that there will always be racism, bigotism, sexism and all the other isms there are in this world, the quicker we can move off the "all we are saying is give peace a chance" soap box and deal with reality- as harsh as it can be. I've had a lot of time to think about and deal with racists and I really can't be bothered with such ignorance. Is Mark Twain inciting the KKK to have a mass re-grouping and go on a killing spree? Is he making every black person feel sorry for themselves? I don't think so? Some people need to get over themselves, stop shouting about black revolution which many have no idea what it's really about, and gain some common sense. I probably haven't made myself as clear as I wanted to be or said what I really mean but it really gets on my nerves when people take things completely out of context. Martin Luther said Jews were the anti-christ. Should we then take all methodist writers out of the library?............ Sorry about the rant peeps.

[Babyruth]

Bro. Tony Abma preached at Bibleway on Wednesday night and he made some super good points and mentioned quotes about "the seed of Ishmael" being seed too. I wrote down some notes, but I think it would be more helpful to listen to it for yourself. Just go to www.bibleway.org and go to archived services and it was March 15, 2006. It's towards the end. It was really good!

[NeedGod]

people, sometimes blacks have a way of feeling sorry for themselves, and other races too.. i agree and its not a nice thing! but we should also be careful saying this. i always try and put myself in people's shoes and sometimes, someone we think is feeling sorry for themselves might actually be suffering from low esteem due to things they went through in life.
i am sorry if this sounds funny, but i dont think anyone who hasnt faced segregation in the extent a black has faced it should try and say they understand. basically, the whole continent and the whole race of people has been made to feel inferior. its a case of a nearly whole continent with inferiority complex basically.
i dont knw, maybe i am so passionate because i am black, or maybe because i have faced racism even from fellow blacks(the lighter one's color, the more beautiful they are considered) and it tore me up to bits before i found Jesus! He cleared up the bitterness and gave me love for everyone. Praise His name.maybe i am even wrong, but i know, although people who have faced raciscm can go too far, they still have wounds that they can justifiably cry about. bad wounds in their hearts.
The world out there though will never change. in a recent documentary, it said there are 200 more racist group in the states than were there 10 years ago. The world is full of hate, and it wont change. anchor yourselves in Jesus and let Him cover you with love. If anyone of you faces segregation, dont cry and gnash your teeth and grow bitter, there is a God who loves you. and what more, there are people, who love you too. people who believe in this Word. Just anchor in Jesus. today, if someone tells me i would be prettier if i were lighter in shade, i smile inside myself and feel sorry for them. for i know it was God's perfect will that i be like this. He had a purpose for me and if i would be a shade lighter, it wouldnt have been the way He wanted it.
if God made you in any way, you are perfect for you are in His will.
that just makes me want to sing and dance :yay: He loves us just the way we are. and your race isnt what He looks at to choose you to come to Him, its by Grace that He chose us.
Let us then strive to love everyone. i know for people who have grown up in racist societies, it may be hard not to be prejudiced. the others should also understand and pray for them. let us all love each other. please, let us pray to God and cry to Him till we get the kind of love that will make us just want to be with each other up there in yonder. that is the only way we are going to make it, when we have perfect love.
I've saud too much, i just couldnt stop typing, anyhows
LET US LOVE EACH OTHER PEOPLE OF GOD.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL

[trumpetplayer]

Thanks for that namwacha that was a great post. I feel so bad how the world has treated the black peoples. In the movie Hotel Rwanda (dont take me wrong from my T.V forum) it shows how the nation of Rwanda was abandoned by the world during the recent genocide. It was so sad. Were was the great American "hero" when they were needed, or the rest of the world for that matter.

So with that in mind its better to go towards the side of caution then to offend anyone. God created all colours and they are beautiful. And ive said before its time to stop the racism of prior generations. Christianity leaves NO room for racism. As the saying goes Dont judge until you have walked a Mile in a persons mocassins.

[Mick_Mack89]

And ive said before its time to stop the racism of prior generations.

A wonderful idea... but unfortunatly, it's probably not going to happen.

[HotShot53]

I would have to agree with Ruth... quotas and such seem to leave out the majorities, so if you are a poor white kid, you are worse off than a poor black kid. I don't think racism will ever fully go away, but I don't think quotas are helping it go away any quicker.... they give people the perception that minorities get into college just cause they are a minority, not cause they are smart, etc.

[trumpetplayer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpetplayer
And ive said before its time to stop the racism of prior generations.


A wonderful idea... but unfortunately, it's probably not going to happen.


This can only be changed on young person at a time. If you and other young people make the effort to not perpetrate stereotypes and make racist comments, this can make a big difference. Look through history racism is alot less now then 50 or 100 years ago.

Remember we are supposed to be an image of Christ, thus we should treat all people with kindness and love. This leaves NO ROOM for bigotry and racism.

[desertroses]

This can only be changed on young person at a time. If you and other young people make the effort to not perpetrate stereotypes and make racist comments, this can make a big difference. Look through history racism is alot less now then 50 or 100 years ago.

Remember we are supposed to be an image of Christ, thus we should treat all people with kindness and love. This leaves NO ROOM for bigotry and racism.

Yes this is all too true. Stereotypes and bigotry has long existed, however with the younger generation, strong emphasis should be placed to remove such ignorant and immature notions. We can not help what has been done in the past, but we can make an effort to expose different cultures/races to those around us. For me personally, growing up in a predominantly 'white' city there hardly were any visual minorities in the schools. Once I started university, I was amazed and I'll admit overwhelmed, with how many visual minorites went to my school (Asian, Italian, Indian, Blacks, Arabs etc..) Many came to study from Toronto, one of our major cities that is highly populated with minorities. Once exposed to various cultural groups, slowly stereotypes do breakdown, because you begin to realize that the many stereotypes that most of us are exposed to and grow up with are false.

[NeedGod]

it will never change not even with the young people. never. this world will only get more rotten. we believers should just love each other and all. we should live a life of testimony but we shouldnt think the world will change. it wont. never. there are animals out there. no one without the seed of Christ will change.
that is why i am longing and homesick for home. this life is so hard, but i will get home some time and the toils of the road will seem nothing. AMEN. i am not feeling like dancing today. i feel like crying for some reason. look at guy/girl forum 'i need help' thread. i wont repeat myself. but anyhow, let us hold each other up in prayer

[NeedGod]

i got this from halima's post in another thread andd i thought i would post it on here. its a song from a tape she bought some time back.

There are lines that separate us,
lines of colour,lines of 'race'
we all come from different places
but we share a common need
and the best of good intentions
on our own get in the way
but we're called to make a difference
to give His life, His love away
and -

Be a bridge for love to cross over
and one by one worlds come together
take the stones ,from the walls that divide us
and use them to unite us, where we live
be a bridge.

you can say that it's useless
you can point to history
but one light has pierced the darkness
and it's changed the heart of me
everyday we all have chances
no matter who or where we are
to close the gaps that lie between us
to share God's love with open hearts and -
be a bridge

[Anny !]

hi friends,
ijust read this book 2 months ago. i do not know what you all wrote about it, this is my opinion:

i do not think that mark twain - the author - was a racist. it is a book for young ppl which is quite funny to read and which discripes the way of life in those days. you learn about the adventures of huck and tom and how they try to deliver jim, a slave. the book contains many aspects of racism - it shows just the way it was, the way white men treated the black people. in my opinion it wants you to see how it was in those days: unjust, bad, dishonouring, a real shame etc
and all those bad treatments were very often done from very religious ppl. They felt themselfs as good christians when treating their slaves like dirt.

this is exactly what the book talks about. a hyporathical society of so called christians.

but the heoros huck and tom are NOT that way, they try to fight against it and to give justice to slave Jim. and they succeed.
so - why should m. twain let act his heros like this when he was about to write a book FOR racism? i believe he just wanted us to show the way it really was. - it was even worse.
i am pretty sure that even today ppl do not want to know about it. for sure the white ppl do not play a good role in this book. no wonder why it is band from the libraries... perhaps they do not want to face the truth and especially those religous ppl cannot feel good about it, when they read about thier ancients....

[Christian Girl 2009]

I think that in some ways the book is kind of racist. I understand that back in those days African Americans were viewed differently then how they are today. What I do not like however, is how they make them look dumb. At the beginning of the book i was upset at the authors inconsiderateness, once i completed the book, however, i started to understand why he wrote it that way. In order to show what life really was like he had to show how people back then felt about African Americans. Even though I feel that everyone is equal I still think that the book has a good message behind it. I do not agree with different schools that want to pull the books off library shelves. In order for people to appreciate the life and freedom we have now we must know what life was once like. Anyways, I'm ramballing on so I'll end it there.

[Babyruth]

You remind me of me, at least in the this particular post. Do you write long essays because you can't seem to explain it all in a short one? That's my problem. I take forever to say one simple thing.

[NeedGod]

I think that in some ways the book is kind of racist. I understand that back in those days African Americans were viewed differently then how they are today. What I do not like however, is how they make them look dumb. At the beginning of the book i was upset at the authors inconsiderateness, once i completed the book, however, i started to understand why he wrote it that way. In order to show what life really was like he had to show how people back then felt about African Americans. Even though I feel that everyone is equal I still think that the book has a good message behind it. I do not agree with different schools that want to pull the books off library shelves. In order for people to appreciate the life and freedom we have now we must know what life was once like. Anyways, I'm ramballing on so I'll end it there.
exactly, i would no have said it better.
Ruth, i do too! i write and write and write, then i write some more and some more,and some more, just coz i cant seem to stop!

[Babyruth]

I'm glad you share my "problem." My teachers are always telling me to condense, but I can't! I just have to write and write. My essays ending up being quite long because I just can't get my point across in a small amount of words!

[HotShot53]

Lol, I am the complete opposite with school papers... I struggle to put enough fluff in to get over the minimum page limit too often... I'm way too much straight to the point, I guess.

[Babyruth]

That's good. My teachers are constantly telling me to get to the point. I never can. At least, not for a while.

[NeedGod]

whew! i didnt know anyone could do that hotshot! really, i didnt!
i thought everyone was like me, just talking and talking and talking and talking and talking......ok, there i go again, not getting straight to the point!
see what i mean!

[HotShot53]

Lol, yeah, I see what you mean ;)

[NeedGod]

oh and i wasnt through yet, i still got more to say after i have done all that talking.and after that, i usually have some left over. even when i stop, my throat itches to say still some more, and my fingers itch to write more still!
i guess since we women talk alot, we make up for all those words men dont get to say. some more than others

[AgapZoe]

oh and i wasnt through yet, i still got more to say after i have done all that talking.and after that, i usually have some left over. even when i stop, my throat itches to say still some more, and my fingers itch to write more still!
i guess since we women talk alot, we make up for all those words men dont get to say. some more than others

cuz,you sure are too much of yourself...
..she's right but then, she even talks plus for the women who don't get to exhaust theirs.(did i step on someone's toe?)

[NeedGod]

oh, you better put that foot in your mouth my dear, coz they are my toes:y14: :peep: hide or else................

[AgapZoe]

oh, you better put that foot in your mouth my dear, coz they are my toes:y14: :peep: hide or else................
lol cuz. i noticed you changed your username!