Forgiveness

[shasta-daisy]

I have been reading some of the forums in here and it seems like a lot of you have strong opinions on what is right and wrong before marriage. And I do think that young people who are dating should be careful. Actually, I think that parents, and even jr. high and high school teachers, should really scare their children with pre-martial facts.... If young people are more informed, I think they will be more careful.
But I am wondering how many of you would forgive for the past? What if a young person was living out of the will of God and was dating non-believers, and ended up making a mistake? If you were dating this person and found out about the past, would you forgive this person? God forgives us. To me, the past is the past. I think of about Bro. Branham talking about Louise, the Indian girl. She thought she couldn't have a husband because of her past. Someone asked Bro. Branham "what about Louise's past?" and Bro. Branham said that what is under the blood, God doesn't even show him. Now, who knows what past Louise had, but God forgave her and gave her a husband. So I think we should be forgive and not judge a person for the past, if the person asked God's forgiveness. So what about you? Would you forgive someone for the past? Even deeper, to singles, could you forgive enough to marry someone who is not a virgin because of past mistakes that they regret? How much would you forgive?

[marichino_freedom]

I would absolutely forgive!

I think the same thing....what's under the blood is under the blood.

Thank the Lord for His Amazing Grace! :yay:

[blessed]

I would forgive, the way I see it we all make mistakes and what's under the blood is under the blood, BUT we must still take a strong stand against such things to prevent others from going that way.

We are not condeming those who have fallen, but those who have not BE CAREFUL for satan is as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour stay away from temptation and situations which will lead to temptation.

[Jezz]

They've not sinned against us by having sex with somebody else before we even knew them so why would we have to forgive them? There is nothing to forgive?

As long as it is settled between them and the Lord its all good. Also the person who had sinned should tell the other person before they get married.

[shasta-daisy]

Yeah, I think the same. But I know some people who do not, which is a little harsh I think. There is no little or big sin to God, and we all have done something we regret in our past, no matter how big or little that was. Like I said, knowing people who are judgemental about past mistakes, I was wondering how some of your veiws would be. So far, I have liked the responses. And I for one, am soo grateful for the truly amazing grace of God. So instead of judging others, I pray for them.

[HotShot53]

ditto to what has been said so far...

[joris]

Actually, I think that parents, and even jr. high and high school teachers, should really scare their children with pre-martial facts.... If young people are more informed, I think they will be more careful.scare them? :confused: any fear, outside of 'fear of the Lord' is poison. Don't scare them. Informing sounds like a good thing though.
I think we should be forgive and not judge a person for the past, if the person asked God's forgiveness.You "shouldn't" even wait for the person to ask forgiveness, you forgive and don't judge. You never judge at all by the way, or you're outside of Gods will
That doesn't mean that you must stay in a shaky relation, that needs serious prayer (though again nobody'd need to be told that, in the situation), but there isn't a question whether you should or should not forgive - you should.

[BroTrevor]

MATTHEW 18:21 - 35
21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

[marichino_freedom]

Amen!!!!!!!! :)

[leahmb]

MATTHEW 18:21 - 35
21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Guess what scripture I JUST read...

I think if it is in the past, obviously forgiveness is in order. I do think, however, depending on what it was, it can be good to discuss and see how the past may affect the future. If it will have no affect, great! If it may have some effect, it's good to be aware, so both can work through it together.

[shasta-daisy]

Guess what scripture I JUST read...

I think if it is in the past, obviously forgiveness is in order. I do think, however, depending on what it was, it can be good to discuss and see how the past may affect the future. If it will have no affect, great! If it may have some effect, it's good to be aware, so both can work through it together.

I just don't see how anything in a person's past could have an affect. Sinners stay the same until they come to God. But a Christian is a changed person, their past has nothing to do with their present. Even sinners can make changes for the better. I just can not understand people who let past mistakes affect them. I just don't understand why things like this can be an issue. They just shouldn't, but sometimes they are.

[shasta-daisy]

scare them? :confused: any fear, outside of 'fear of the Lord' is poison. Don't scare them. Informing sounds like a good thing though.
You "shouldn't" even wait for the person to ask forgiveness, you forgive and don't judge. You never judge at all by the way, or you're outside of Gods will
That doesn't mean that you must stay in a shaky relation, that needs serious prayer (though again nobody'd need to be told that, in the situation), but there isn't a question whether you should or should not forgive - you should.

scare as in inform them greatly about everything that is negative related to pre-maritial sex so that they might think twice about it. Sorry but you seem to analyze things I say too much and misunderstand me. But, yeah I do believe in total forgiveness, also.

[AlanaH]

I would hope it wouldn't have to be an issue, but at the same time, I would forgive. It would be hard knowing, but if you truly loved that person, your love would be stronger.

[Babyruth]

I just don't see how anything in a person's past could have an affect. Sinners stay the same until they come to God. But a Christian is a changed person, their past has nothing to do with their present. Even sinners can make changes for the better. I just can not understand people who let past mistakes affect them. I just don't understand why things like this can be an issue. They just shouldn't, but sometimes they are.
But some past things do have an affect on your future, regardless of the fact that you're a Christian. Bro. Branham said, just like the Bible says, you reap what you sow. Some things, although totally forgiven, still come up. Not necessarily by the other person, but by the law or whatever. I think that's what Leah was meaning.

[Skirty]

I just don't see how anything in a person's past could have an affect. Sinners stay the same until they come to God. But a Christian is a changed person, their past has nothing to do with their present. Even sinners can make changes for the better. I just can not understand people who let past mistakes affect them. I just don't understand why things like this can be an issue. They just shouldn't, but sometimes they are.
For every action there is a reaction... just because a past is forgiven does NOT mean it won't affect the future.
What if the 'fooling around' done in the past resulted in a child... that will have an enormous affect on ones future.
That is not saying someone shouldn't be forgiven for it, but it should be discussed when coming into a relationship.

I'm pretty sure that's the idea Leah was getting at.

[AgapZoe]

Wow, great thread here. You see, forgiveness is actually a sign of maturity - Spiritually, Emotionally and as a whole person generally...

[shasta-daisy]

For every action there is a reaction... just because a past is forgiven does NOT mean it won't affect the future.
What if the 'fooling around' done in the past resulted in a child... that will have an enormous affect on ones future.
That is not saying someone shouldn't be forgiven for it, but it should be discussed when coming into a relationship.

I'm pretty sure that's the idea Leah was getting at.

Yeah, I totally get that point. And yeah, you do "reap what you sow". I totally get you here. The only thing I don't really understand is when people let other people's past get in the way of a friendship or being in a relationship....unless like you say, the person has a child or STD, which is huge. And that brings me to an earlier point; the Bible tells us to be pure. But teens out of the will of God, may not be thinking about that. Parents, and even teachers, really need to stress dangers of premarital sex. Not tell teens to practice safe sex, but tell teens to obstain because of all the negitive outcomes that could possibly happen. Ok, I think I just got into a new topic. Sorry.

[joris]

Not tell teens to practice safe sex, but tell teens to obstain because of all the negitive outcomes that could possibly happen. Ok, I think I just got into a new topic. Sorry.That's exactly opposite to what's been happening (and growing to be "normal") in this world for the last decades :(

But consider this, we (us as young/single/not married people) shouldn't be focusing on possible negative outcomes of having sex (That's still like, I'm being "good" only because not being good gets me in serious trouble). No, we should obstain because we love God, as an act of loving Him that we (try and) live life as He longs. (though you couldn't tell the world that, could you?)

(yea, perhaps this should split into a new thread if we want to discuss forgiveness more in this thread?)

[EllyMae]

Parents, and even teachers, really need to stress dangers of premarital sex. Not tell teens to practice safe sex, but tell teens to obstain because of all the negitive outcomes that could possibly happen.

Isn't that what parents and teachers have been doing for many years? And everyday another teenage girl comes to school pregnant. Why? Is it because their mentors have not been giving them the right advice their whole life? Maybe to an extent, but like Joris said, people do these things because they don't have God in their life. So, perhaps telling church going teen that might have a positive effect, but your everyday worldly teen needs much more. They need God, and until they accept Him in their life, they will do unGodly things, such as have premarital sex.

[shasta-daisy]

Isn't that what parents and teachers have been doing for many years? And everyday another teenage girl comes to school pregnant. Why? Is it because their mentors have not been giving them the right advice their whole life? Maybe to an extent, but like Joris said, people do these things because they don't have God in their life. So, perhaps telling church going teen that might have a positive effect, but your everyday worldly teen needs much more. They need God, and until they accept Him in their life, they will do unGodly things, such as have premarital sex.
Well, that is sort of what teachers do.... but they should teach more abstinence than "Safeness" and a lot of parents don't nearly address the subject enough. Honestly, a lot of teens just do what they want, but a lot of other teens really are not informed enough to make good decisions, they are naive about all the dangers. But yes, the main thing is to witness about God's love and hope they get God in their life. But the danger could be before they do get God in their life. I don't know; I just know I was a little naive as a teenager, and learned a lot of the dangers through the "grape vine" and research. I went to a Christian school where the topic wasn't brought up and my parents only informed me a little, you know... so I feel very strongly about informing teens. That does not mean that they will not make a wrong decision if they are informed, but then they don't have an excuse (and I do think a lot more wouldn't make such bad decisions if they really think bad things could happen, but that's just me) But, yes, again, accepting God's salvation is what teens need to change their life; you are right about that, of course.

[collegegirl]

Back to the original context of the thread...

That was a very hard subject to bring up. A very thought provoking one.

To talk seriousness with a potential mate...and then they confess that they did not save their virginity for their wedding night, would be a very hard thing for THEM to confess, much less for US to forgive, as now the person whom you perhaps have grown very close to is now sharing a past that is more painful to them than it would be for us, as now they feel the pain and regret, and THEY have to live with it...for the rest of their lives.

Honestly, with a confession like that, knowing that they might hold their breath, preparing for hurt, perhaps even rejection for their past, how much harder on THEM to ask for forgiveness than for us to forgive.

With God's grace, prayer, and love...true love...I believe that I could forgive them, and not hold it against them every. I would need the Lord's help and guidance in not getting caught up with jealousy, bitterness or anything towards the person in his past.

As Blessed said, it is under the blood, and God doesn't even see it.

And as how the Lord would enable me to see it...how would I want someone to act towards me if I had the same thing to confess? Would that person love me enough to forgive me for my past? Would he love me enough to look me in the eyes and say "Honey, I forgive you. You didn't mean to do it against me. You hold that place in my heart, and no matter what you ever did, I love you, and I always will."

How could we NOT forgive someone?

That is what Christ did to us. "I don't hold you captive to your past."

What grace and mercy. What freedom! Thank you Lord!!! :yay:

[BroTrevor]

STANDING.IN.THE.GAP_ JEFF.IN V-6 N-7 SUNDAY_ 63-0623M
45 Now here in Louisville, Kentucky, not long ago, a minister was talking, that there was a--a young lady. She had waited a little long in life to be married, somewhere around her twenty-five, thirty years old. And she was a fine, staunch Christian girl. And there was a certain man in Louisville that wasn't; he hadn't lived such a good life. He had run to dances and roadhouses, and so forth, but one day he found pardon for his sin and he--he become a real Christian, real staunch Christian. About a year later, he fell in love with this young lady, and the young lady madly fell in love with him. And they were married.
46 And after they lived together about two years, they said that this young lady said to her husband one day, she said, "Dear, I suppose that's kind of hard for you, just a new Christian," said, "I've been a Christian since a little girl." But said, "For you, a young Christian, to have to stand all the--the--the wiles and temptations that goes with it after you--you've sinned so long."
And he said, "Well, it does become a battle."
47 She said, "I want you to remember one thing, that if the enemy does upset you somewhere, and you fall and you go back into sin, don't stay away from home. I want you come on home." Said, "You're going to find at home the same wife that you married." And said, "I'll help you to pray back, and pray through, and get back to God again." Said, "I--I--I--I don't want you to stay away." Said, "Look, I married you upon the basis not of what you were, but I married you because I loved you." And she said, "No matter what you do, I still love you. I married you because I loved you."
48 And the man that day went to work, was heard repeating it in a... the place where he was working. He said, "Now, how could a man do anything wrong against something like that?" When a woman, that loves him so much that, no matter what he did, was willing to come back and take him again, and try it again. See? It shows... Now, you multiply that by a billion and then you have some idea of what the love of God is. See?
49 That when a man falls in love with Jesus Christ, the things of the world... When you think of what He did for you in the light of the Scripture, not in the light of some emotion, but in the light of facts, what it is, then there is something happens in you. When the new Birth comes, the sin is dead as midnight. When as long as that Light is in you, how can darkness shine? It cannot do it. That's what God did to one man who throwed hisself in the gap, that could take the promise. And Moses being a--a type of this Antitype, that's why Moses stood in the gap for the people.


This Godly little lady wasn't just prepared to forgive the past, but she was prepared to forgive the present - if it should happen.

Can you do that?

[leahmb]

I heard that story last night at church...

I just don't see how anything in a person's past could have an affect. Sinners stay the same until they come to God. But a Christian is a changed person, their past has nothing to do with their present. Even sinners can make changes for the better. I just can not understand people who let past mistakes affect them. I just don't understand why things like this can be an issue. They just shouldn't, but sometimes they are.

The past does affect the present, there's no arguing with that. And of course people can change for the better, that's what we pray for! I do believe all of the past can be forgiven. I was saying that it would be important to discuss the past, before any committment is made. Of course, it shouldn't matter, but it's only fair to the other person. I was thinking along the lines of children, STDs, broken off engagements, infertility, etc... Yes, they can all be forgiven, but to wait until married to discuss them just isn't right.

[joris]

This Godly little lady wasn't just prepared to forgive the past, but she was prepared to forgive the present - if it should happen.

Can you do that?Now that's a trick question, isn't it? For God'll give you the strength to make that right choice -- when you need it. As you don't need it today, it's just, words, if you say you can do it anyway.
...Let's just hope (and pray?) you'll never find out just how hard it is

[HotShot53]

...Let's just hope (and pray?) you'll never find out just how hard it is

Amen to that, for sure...

[BroTrevor]

Now that's a trick question, isn't it?

I think it's more of an introspective question.

[shasta-daisy]

STANDING.IN.THE.GAP_ JEFF.IN V-6 N-7 SUNDAY_ 63-0623M
45 Now here in Louisville, Kentucky, not long ago, a minister was talking, that there was a--a young lady. She had waited a little long in life to be married, somewhere around her twenty-five, thirty years old. And she was a fine, staunch Christian girl. And there was a certain man in Louisville that wasn't; he hadn't lived such a good life. He had run to dances and roadhouses, and so forth, but one day he found pardon for his sin and he--he become a real Christian, real staunch Christian. About a year later, he fell in love with this young lady, and the young lady madly fell in love with him. And they were married.
46 And after they lived together about two years, they said that this young lady said to her husband one day, she said, "Dear, I suppose that's kind of hard for you, just a new Christian," said, "I've been a Christian since a little girl." But said, "For you, a young Christian, to have to stand all the--the--the wiles and temptations that goes with it after you--you've sinned so long."
And he said, "Well, it does become a battle."
47 She said, "I want you to remember one thing, that if the enemy does upset you somewhere, and you fall and you go back into sin, don't stay away from home. I want you come on home." Said, "You're going to find at home the same wife that you married." And said, "I'll help you to pray back, and pray through, and get back to God again." Said, "I--I--I--I don't want you to stay away." Said, "Look, I married you upon the basis not of what you were, but I married you because I loved you." And she said, "No matter what you do, I still love you. I married you because I loved you."
48 And the man that day went to work, was heard repeating it in a... the place where he was working. He said, "Now, how could a man do anything wrong against something like that?" When a woman, that loves him so much that, no matter what he did, was willing to come back and take him again, and try it again. See? It shows... Now, you multiply that by a billion and then you have some idea of what the love of God is. See?
49 That when a man falls in love with Jesus Christ, the things of the world... When you think of what He did for you in the light of the Scripture, not in the light of some emotion, but in the light of facts, what it is, then there is something happens in you. When the new Birth comes, the sin is dead as midnight. When as long as that Light is in you, how can darkness shine? It cannot do it. That's what God did to one man who throwed hisself in the gap, that could take the promise. And Moses being a--a type of this Antitype, that's why Moses stood in the gap for the people.


This Godly little lady wasn't just prepared to forgive the past, but she was prepared to forgive the present - if it should happen.

Can you do that?

Amen. Good quote you found.... they are all good of course, but good quote for the topic:)

[joris]

I think it's more of an introspective question.Just you have no way of answering it. Unless you actually went through that nightmare of having the closest love tear your heart to pieces in such a way.

[NeedGod]

It is easier to forgive the past than the present. Most women I know who live with husbands who have cheated on them never really forgive. This is because while the past is forgivable because it happened while the person was not present, a future or presnt sin is hard to take because it feels like a betrayal. I know most people think it will be easy to forgive something like that, but only after someone sufferes a betrayal does someone know how hard it is to accept it. It not only makes one suffer the loss of trust, it also crushes a person's esteem in a big way. Where one felt lovable and acceptable, one finds that they feel less of that and starts doubting themselves. Only the grace of God can help someone in a situatiopn like that. Ony the grace of God I assure you can make someone live through that and still come through on the other side holding on to what was. And it changes a relationship. It never can be the same again after that. Not entirely. So pray that it never happens to you, and if it does, pray that God gives you grace to take it. Alone, no one can really do it.

[BroTrevor]

Just you have no way of answering it. Unless you actually went through that nightmare of having the closest love tear your heart to pieces in such a way.

Does that mean it shouldn't be asked? I'm not triviallizing it. I'm trying to accentuate what real forgiveness is.

[godschild9213]

Me Myself & well I would definately forgive this person for there sins but to marry them & them not be virgin Im sorry but Id think twice but still forgive Id like 2 marry someone thats pure like me....but I guess it just all depends if I really loved them & from the heart knew they were the one & yet they werent a virgin yes id marry them still & forgive them but it be hard for me..:)

[joris]

a future or presnt sin is hard to take because it feels like a betrayal. I know most people think it will be easy to forgive something like that, but only after someone sufferes a betrayal does someone know how hard it is to accept it.I was trying to emphasise just how you have no clue at all what it's like unless you go through it; I don't have a clue either -- just the idea of it being "easy" seems like, just totally absurd It not only makes one suffer the loss of trust, it also crushes a person's esteem in a big way. Where one felt lovable and acceptable, one finds that they feel less of that and starts doubting themselves. Only the grace of God can help someone in a situatiopn like that.We should find our worth in us being His children, His loved ones.
Now perhaps that deserves it's own thread, but...wanted to add that

[NeedGod]

Amen Joris. That is so true. We should take pride in being His own. And He alone can give us the ability to do so through prayer and listening and reading His Word

[AgapZoe]

Hey friends, please pray for me. Finding it hard to talk to someone because of the way she keeps making unnecessary remarks about me, my life and my biz without really finding out why I've done or said smth. We've been thru this before, apologised and thought it would stop. Yesterday it happened again and it's really not interesting. It drove me to crying, - it made me so so sad :012: :( I pray God grants me wisdom such that when she makes a certain comment, I know how to respond to it instead of getting all worked up too. You know, kinda tired with all that you know. She says things without really knowing if she's hurting me...or anybody for that matter. Then later on when things have calmed down, she says she didn't have any bad intention...for how long? yea, maybe my perseverance is really being tested! God give me grace and your understanding and a heart to forgive and forget anyway. Coz am so tired. (I give people benefits of doubt, let it pass, but it reaches a point where I really can't take it anymore - I get tired.) Now, am so tired, so sad, and may God help me.

[godschild9213]

amen God will grant u that if u pray & seek him daily=] Ive had that happen alot & the devil just pushes me off a cliff it really feels that way & if u get mad sometimes u can say bad things back u dont mean at all & u can just feel ur anger takin over ur body but u must fight back sis!!! i know its hard specially if its constantly going on..
God Bless:)

[AgapZoe]

Thanks Kimmy, the devil has no hold on our relationship, we're ok now, it's like it was just lifted you know and am hoping the sweet bond we have now goes on and on..until time rolls up into eternity. :) I just let it out to God to take care of it;seems when you're tired is when God comes on the scene, huh? No, He's always there, waiting for you to realise that you really can't make it on your own, not even in relating with others. Mark you personalities defer.
Thanks alot.Keep praying for us, to experience a deeper love for God hence for each other. I love her. And the devil knows that. So he is never happy. I know she loves me too. :)

God be with you all.

[NeedGod]

I know how it is my dear. Sometimes people can be really insensitive. But as you said, maybe God is testing you. But i'd say try and avoid the company of that person. It'll do you no good to hang around a person who doesn't make you feel too good about what you're doing. Try and hang around positive people who improve your life and add to it in some way. Steer clear of negative people lest their negativity rubs off on you. And it'll do your esteem good if you stay away from negative people. Praying for you, God'll make a way for you

[AgapZoe]

Oh sure thing, great advice sis, and that's exactly what I felt led to do yesterday, and well, guess God's lifted up the whole negativity, from between us, and from my heart because I am at peace now and I pray that we stay at peace and in God's love forever - May God join our hearts with one accord;His blessed Word. There's victory in it. :)

[NeedGod]

So now you and the person are now friends again? Oh, how wonderful. Just be careful that you're not hurt again. Meantime, since its the forgiveness thread, I say its great that you've forgiven the person.