I like, You like, who likes!! [Archive]

HotShot53

08-21-2007, 02:54 PM

I can't really blame them much... but I would recommend that they leave it as just friends with everyone and not try getting into "relationships" or bothering with who likes whom yet, at least not till they are close to actually being able to get married sometime soon. Cause to be honest... lots of things can change during those years, and chances are they will end up marrying someone else (not saying they will... but most will). And if, for example, you "date" a number of girls, and give them all chocolate (or whatever you do)... then giving a girl chocolate doesn't mean as much when you finally are able to get married and are serious about a girl.

(Note: the above is based on my limited experience and perspective, and shouldn't be taken for the absolute truth)

Nate

08-21-2007, 05:54 PM

oh noes! not meaningless chocolate!!!

AndrewMichael

08-28-2007, 12:39 PM

It's all based on the leading of the Lord.

I have a few experiences with this in my life, but unfortunetly at 17 I started dating a worldy girl, and that is always wrong, under any circumstances. 2 Corinthians 6 if you need a reference.

We are human, and we are in fallen bodies that have their own motives. We know the holiness that courtship should possess and in knowing this, we should do everything we can to prevent any sin entering in. If the foundation gets corrupted, you might as well throw the whole building *relationship* out the window.

If both of the ones considering have the Holy Ghost, they will be patient and only consider courtship as lead of God. This is the ideal way. For even if you court the wrong person, the Holy Ghost will keep you from marrying them. Courting without the Holy Ghost is merely insanity.

Maturity and self-will will only get you so far. If you court for a long time, without the HOly Ghost, you will probably fall. With the Holy Ghost, you'll fight temptation like you wouldn't believe. So in agreement with DJ, you should only consider courting when marriage is readily reasonable.

We all have to fight our own "interest" that we have. But prayer is the way to go, then action. We tend to try it the other way around.

That's all I got for now...

TommyLewis

08-28-2007, 08:32 PM

KK u guys tell me is it really really imature to go around telling every person who you like and this person is the one God intended for u at the ages of 14-17 when you cant do any thing about it. I think that at CBW for this age groupw of guys we seem to be having some maturity issues whith this. (IM not saying i was not guilty at one time or the other) but honestly tell me, is this mature or not. Trying to "date" someone when you cant do anything about it. I feel that it will go in th4e wrong direction really fast.

To answer the actual question posed...yes, it is immature to do that. If your interested in someone, spend some time observing, and spend some time with that person, preferably in group settings, to get to know them better. If things are progressing well, then you should speak to the young lady's father, and if he gives his blessing, enter into a courtship phase. In the courtship phase you spend more time together, get to know each other, and if things continue from there, the next is engagement and then marriage. At all steps you should be in constant prayer to be lead not by your flesh, not by your emotions, but by the will of God. Ask God to bring your emotions subject to His will.
Not to disagree with Andrew, but simply as a caveat...it is not enough to have the Holy Spirit and figure "hey, I have the Holy Spirit, everything will be fine." You still have to submit yourself to His leadership. Even having the Holy Spirit you are still subject to making wrong choices if you don't submit yourself to the Spirit's leading.
I think one of the problems with what is being described in the question above is that it sounds as if a young, very young actually, man is simply coming to a conclusion that a young lady is meant to be his, and sharing this conclusion with other people without having secured the proper permission from the young lady's father. To be making comments like that regarding a man's daughter without his blessing is not only immature, but also a serious violation of the headship God has given her. "Father" is a God-ordained office. If your violating a man's God ordained headship, his God ordained office, that strikes me as not only immature, but dangerous.

BroTrevor

08-28-2007, 11:48 PM

uhmm....

boom!

Nate

08-29-2007, 12:13 AM

To answer the actual question posed...

yeah yeah yeah, good post an' all, but you're missing the POINT!

We might give out MEANINGLESS CHOCOLATE!

AndrewMichael

08-29-2007, 12:17 PM

yeah yeah yeah, good post an' all, but you're missing the POINT!

We might give out MEANINGLESS CHOCOLATE!

With an added comment to this statement...

I have been on to flutter with gifts before, not to impress so much, but I like for people that I care about to know that I do. Now, you better know this is the girl for you, and I mean KNOW, not just guess around, or you'll lose $$$ quick.

Oh my... how rich I'd be right now... *stary eyes*

And again, in response to Tommy (and I'm glad I know him personally as to not seem as just arguing, but merely discussing) a person truly filled with the Holy Ghost can mess up, but the Spirit will keep them. It is a Seal that can't be broken. He will only let you get so far, unless you sell out His Spirit for you lustful desire (which I almost did myself). But I am coming more and more to the conclusion a lot of people who think they have the Holy Ghost really don't.

Anyone can confess a dead prophet, or a message that proved true a million times over. But a Life that follows the book of Acts is the vindication of a humble, Christ filled life. Not our replacement of the "humble, powerless Message life" that so commonly gets displayed.

And to bring this back to courtship before I head out, and I don't believe Tommy and I are dissagreeing by any means, and if it seems that way I apologize, but know your stand with God 100% and courtship will come in a way that just flows. You won't have to worry about your age, situations around, but if you are TRULY following God's Spirit, it will roll right along with all the Scriptural patterns and you'll simply have to just yeild to the Spirit. Not put on anything, or in a sense "try" to do things yourself, you overcome by surrendering to God and letting Him show His will to you.

*Another reason I don't agree with most of what we deem Courtship to be God's ordained pattern*... <--- I'll get that another time. My hands hurt....

JoeC

08-29-2007, 05:31 PM

As far as the chocolate goes, I think DJ was pointing to a deeper underlying principle than a lack of appreciation for chocolate.

Think of it this way... if you kiss every girl you date, kissing at the altar won't be that big of a deal. However, if you've never kissed before, imagine how special that is to share that first experience with the girl that you'll be spending the rest of your life with.

Some goes for hand-holding. Same goes for hugging. To the world, the only real special thing for guys is physical intimacy - and even that can become common to them. For a virgin couple though, every element to the packlage of marriage becomes something vonderful! Even the little things. Even chocolate, for those of us who are so romantically inclined. :)

BroTrevor

08-29-2007, 06:52 PM

*Another reason I don't agree with most of what we deem Courtship to be God's ordained pattern*... <--- I'll get that another time. My hands hurt....

Courtship = God's ordained pattern?

Hrrm... I don't know that I see it that way. I sure see it as a great alternative to the hodge podge frivolity we call "dating".

TommyLewis

08-29-2007, 07:45 PM

And again, in response to Tommy (and I'm glad I know him personally as to not seem as just arguing, but merely discussing) a person truly filled with the Holy Ghost can mess up, but the Spirit will keep them. It is a Seal that can't be broken. He will only let you get so far, unless you sell out His Spirit for you lustful desire (which I almost did myself). But I am coming more and more to the conclusion a lot of people who think they have the Holy Ghost really don't.

Anyone can confess a dead prophet, or a message that proved true a million times over. But a Life that follows the book of Acts is the vindication of a humble, Christ filled life. Not our replacement of the "humble, powerless Message life" that so commonly gets displayed.

And to bring this back to courtship before I head out, and I don't believe Tommy and I are dissagreeing by any means, and if it seems that way I apologize, but know your stand with God 100% and courtship will come in a way that just flows. You won't have to worry about your age, situations around, but if you are TRULY following God's Spirit, it will roll right along with all the Scriptural patterns and you'll simply have to just yeild to the Spirit. Not put on anything, or in a sense "try" to do things yourself, you overcome by surrendering to God and letting Him show His will to you.

I dont feel we are disagreeing as much as complementing each others position. I agree that the very first thing is to have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, not just on the body, not just on the spirit, but a true indwelling. He will lead you and guide you to all truth. I just want to point out that even having that, you still have to be submitted to His leadership. You can be Holy Ghost filled, but if you let your carnal nature get in the way, you will make bad choices. The Holy Spirit will then bring you back, He will always bring you back, but you'll have to reap what you sow, and you will likely have scars from those mistakes for the rest of your life. I think when it comes to romance, the emotions involved can be so incredibly strong that it becomes more important than ever to be certain you are being led of the Holy Spirit and not your carnal nature.

I agree with Andrew that if you're yielded, following God's spirit, things will follow scriptural patterns. My concern is that we can lose sight of the most important part there, which is truly being yielded. We can't always expect things to just flow, in terms of courtship, or anything else. There will be sleepless nights, there will be desperate times, there will be trying times, there will be times when you don't know what choice to make. Through it all, know that God WILL lead you, you just have to be willing to follow when He does.

AndrewMichael

08-29-2007, 11:50 PM

Courtship = God's ordained pattern?

Hrrm... I don't know that I see it that way. I sure see it as a great alternative to the hodge podge frivolity we call "dating".

I believe in true courtship, but I'm saying what some Message folks have thrown into the meaning of the word has detoured it into the world's way of dating... That was all I was getting at.

And one of the scriptural patterns of anything that is in the will of God, you will fight. Just have to make sure you aren't fighting off the Lord's warning, and knowing.. again I emphasize... KNOWING that you are led of the Lord. I also know a whole lot about reaping and sowing, and most of it was not fun... to say the least.

Then all trials can't stop it from happening. As I have said before about romance... romance doesn't produce love, romance is produced by love. True love and true romance that is.

JoeC

08-30-2007, 06:08 PM

It is a Seal that can't be broken. He will only let you get so far, unless you sell out His Spirit for you lustful desire (which I almost did myself).

Not to take us off track or anything :rollseyes: , but could you expound on this statement. I think I agree with you in one sense, but I'm not sure if I do in the other senses of that statement.... depends how you mean it <shrugs>.

AndrewMichael

08-31-2007, 12:43 AM

Not to take us off track or anything :rollseyes: , but could you expound on this statement. I think I agree with you in one sense, but I'm not sure if I do in the other senses of that statement.... depends how you mean it <shrugs>.

Brother Branham stated on Eternal Security, and he said he believed it in a sense, but not like the Baptist "Once saved, always saved."

Like he said, and I can hear the quote in my head, "I'm protected from the rain as long as I'm in this house." We need a fresh out pouring of the Holy Ghost daily, or we will backslide. And we are only secure as long as we stay under the shelter of God's Word.

And you can take the gift of the Holy Ghost and sell it out for anything else. God will let you if you want.

(Predestination is only in the eyes of God, and by His foreknowledge, we have free choice)

BUT, if we are sealed and this is daily, then that Spirit will keep us from getting off the beaten track. Make mistakes... sure. But there will be Grace there to get through.

Maybe that cleared up my statement a little bit. We can always discuss private if you needs be Mr. Cornett.

BroTrevor

09-01-2007, 12:39 AM

Brother Branham stated on Eternal Security, and he said he believed it in a sense, but not like the Baptist "Once saved, always saved."

Like he said, and I can hear the quote in my head, "I'm protected from the rain as long as I'm in this house." We need a fresh out pouring of the Holy Ghost daily, or we will backslide. And we are only secure as long as we stay under the shelter of God's Word.

And you can take the gift of the Holy Ghost and sell it out for anything else. God will let you if you want.

(Predestination is only in the eyes of God, and by His foreknowledge, we have free choice)

BUT, if we are sealed and this is daily, then that Spirit will keep us from getting off the beaten track. Make mistakes... sure. But there will be Grace there to get through.

Maybe that cleared up my statement a little bit. We can always discuss private if you needs be Mr. Cornett.

Interesting thoughts!

I recommend a fresh study of the Hebrews series messages.

Particularily as they relate to Hebrews 6:4

JoeC

09-01-2007, 09:49 AM

AndrewMichael

09-01-2007, 07:05 PM

*correction*

I don't believe you can truly be sealed by the Holy Ghost and then lose it.

I believe you can be presented with the entire world (including all religious lifestyles) or the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and your choice is up to you as an individual. Satan's tactic here is to either get you to believe you have something you don't, or that you don't have something you do. The Life testifies of itself, your life will prove by itself whether you have the Holy Ghost or not. As one of my favorite scriptures states,

Acts 11:24
And the disciples were CALLED Christians first in Antioch.

It doesn't say the disciples testified a bunch that they were Christians, but the way they conducted themself PROVED even to the unbeliever, without any debating (and yet we are always fussing unfortunetly), that they were disciples. A confession of having the Holy Ghost is meaningless. And thinking on it.. I don't know if I have really ever just said "Yeah, I got the Holy Ghost," without a needed context.

I have seen people agree with me on scripture 100%, look at them, and sense that something is lacking. That they aren't under the shelter of the Word, thus not protected.

Not in a judgement of persons, but the judging of spirits. (I John 4:1 here).

And just for a quick insight, noticing this is far from the original topic ;), does Hebrews 6:4-6 explain someone who recieved the Holy Ghost, or simply anointed with it because it says that they "were made partakers of the Holy Ghost."

Does that mean they were filled? Can you really be a partaker of the Holy Ghost if it is just anointing you? Thoughts of Anointed Ones at the End Time seem to be rolling through my head on that... Which also makes me think of a statement I was once told by a sister speaking on talking about me to some other Chrisitans:

"I told them that you really had an experience. And this time, they knew it."

Is there such a thing has REALLY having an experience? Isn't it either you have, or you haven't?

Thoughts?

AndrewMichael

09-01-2007, 07:13 PM

I once was presented with receiving God's Spirit, or a desire I had wanted my whole life (before I truly had an experience with the Lord). The Lord's grace led me to His Spirit. This is what I meant by "selling out the Holy Ghost."

I replied that first time in a very tired state... I will admit, and didn't support or state as I should have. Apologies.

Full-time work/school gets to ya after a little bit.

JoeC

09-02-2007, 10:30 AM

I glad we got that cleared up - we all seem to be in agreement that while one "can have the Holy Spirit on the flesh every day of their life and still go to Hell," there is also a sealing of the Holy Ghost which comes on the soul that, like the lineman working at the train yard who seals the boxcar up, we are then sealed until our we reach our destination (i.e. Heaven).

umm, right?

JoeC

09-02-2007, 10:44 AM

I'm glad we got that cleared up - we all seem to be in agreement that while one "can have the Holy Spirit on the flesh every day of their life and still go to Hell," there is also a sealing of the Holy Ghost which comes on the soul that, like the lineman working at the train yard who seals the boxcar up, we are then sealed until our we reach our destination (i.e. Heaven).

umm, right?

NeedGod

09-03-2007, 04:42 AM

interesting. And now since we are on the topic of being filled, can someone please tell me, how do you know if you are filled or not?

FAT FRIAR

09-03-2007, 02:46 PM

i dnno if im right or not

but my dad always tells me that it is a change in your everyday life

like instead of just saying something or doing something wrong it just doesnt happen
for example( you think will this affect my testimony or would God do this
well my dad says if you are filled with the holy ghost then you dont have to think about it. it comes like its natural you just dont do it. ( that is just one attribute) but you should really ask the minesrty they would give you the best anwser.
all the rest of us would say what we think.

but im not one to say i kinda need to know the same anwser. thats just what my dad used to say.

JoeC

09-03-2007, 06:20 PM

Nam, you should probably ask your local pastor that. If you'd like to discuss this further, feel free to bring it up in the Study Hall. The Fort is guys only. ;)

jordancpeterson

09-03-2007, 09:57 PM

I think one of the problems with what is being described in the question above is that it sounds as if a young, very young actually, man is simply coming to a conclusion that a young lady is meant to be his, and sharing this conclusion with other people without having secured the proper permission from the young lady's father. To be making comments like that regarding a man's daughter without his blessing is not only immature, but also a serious violation of the headship God has given her. "Father" is a God-ordained office. If your violating a man's God ordained headship, his God ordained office, that strikes me as not only immature, but dangerous.

I agree and unfortunately I haven't been always perfect in this area like I want too. :(

JoeC

09-03-2007, 11:25 PM

NeedGod

09-04-2007, 12:48 AM

I'm sorry, please don't give me red for that post. I didn't notice it was the fort. My apologies

TommyLewis

09-04-2007, 09:47 AM

I think most all of us could raise our hands "guilty" in having been to loose with the way we talk about girls (immature, not immorally)... perhaps not sober enough.

Or am I the only one? <looks around>

No...you're not the only one.

I also think that not only do we need to be careful with how we talk about girls, but we need to be careful with how we talk to girls. I used to try to be the guy who was always "there" for my female friends, to talk about their problems etc...until I realized that in doing so I was creating emotional connections that were simply not right. My pastor always talks about how guys, for the most part, are visual, while girls are wooed by words. Even if your just trying to be friendly, trying to be helpful, a guy has no business connecting emotionally with a young lady on that level. I shouldn't be a young lady's confidant, or her go-to-guy for advice on life or on the Word. Those roles should be filled by her female friends, her parents and her pastor. If you begin to fill the role that is meant for a young lady's father or pastor, you are violating that man's headship. Anymore I still try to be friendly, I'm still willing to talk about life, about Scripture etc..., but I try to be ever mindful of proper headship, and of avoiding emotional connections. If that makes people think I'm shallow...well, so be it. At least my conscience is clear.

We hear and talk alot about girls being responsible for the effect the clothes they wear, the way they present themselves has on guys. I agree with this. If a girl, knowing that guys are visual creatures, dresses or presents herself in a way that incites a certain response, she will, as Bro Branham said, stand judgement with him. In the same vein, however, if we guys, knowing that girls are wooed by words, purposely create emotional connections with girls outside of the proper channels, I believe we will be held responsible for that.

Anyways...that is just my opinion...

BroTrevor

09-04-2007, 11:33 AM

Acts 11:24
And the disciples were CALLED Christians first in Antioch.

It doesn't say the disciples testified a bunch that they were Christians, but the way they conducted themself PROVED even to the unbeliever, without any debating (and yet we are always fussing unfortunetly), that they were disciples.

BOOM!

and

We hear and talk alot about girls being responsible for the effect the clothes they wear, the way they present themselves has on guys. I agree with this. If a girl, knowing that guys are visual creatures, dresses or presents herself in a way that incites a certain response, she will, as Bro Branham said, stand judgement with him. In the same vein, however, if we guys, knowing that girls are wooed by words, purposely create emotional connections with girls outside of the proper channels, I believe we will be held responsible for that.

Boom!

-----------------

I'm glad we got that cleared up - we all seem to be in agreement that while one "can have the Holy Spirit on the flesh every day of their life and still go to Hell," there is also a sealing of the Holy Ghost which comes on the soul that, like the lineman working at the train yard who seals the boxcar up, we are then sealed until our we reach our destination (i.e. Heaven).

umm, right?

Sounds correct to me.

JoeC

09-04-2007, 01:45 PM

I shouldn't be a young lady's confidant, or her go-to-guy for advice on life or on the Word... If you begin to fill the role that is meant for a young lady's father or pastor, you are violating that man's headship.

This one's getting green.

Been there, shoulda done otherwise.

AndrewMichael

09-05-2007, 12:22 AM

This one's getting green.

Been there, shoulda done otherwise.

That is all true, but a woman's head is a man. So to step across this authority as only an interest/boyfriend is wrong, but don't you need to show the potential of being capable of being the head to this girl?

You are to take the spot of her father and she needs to have confidence in you.

To do you understand the balance I am trying to state?

HotShot53

09-05-2007, 12:36 AM

That is all true, but a woman's head is a man. So to step across this authority as only an interest/boyfriend is wrong, but don't you need to show the potential of being capable of being the head to this girl?

You are to take the spot of her father and she needs to have confidence in you.

To do you understand the balance I am trying to state?
I believe Tommy was meaning more of when a girl is just a friend, nothing more, and unlikely to become anything more than just a friend.

Sometimes people (girls and guys alike) find it easier to confide/get advice from a peer than their parents/pastor etc... and I agree, we shouldn't let a girl start relying on our advice etc. Being an additional peer adviser can sometimes help them, though, as long as they don't become too dependent on you. The couple times when I've been told thing that a girls parents don't know about (for various reasons), I've always tried to persuade them to tell their parents and get advice from them... offhand I can think of three times that they did tell their parents, and all three people were glad they did afterwards.

jordancpeterson

09-05-2007, 01:15 AM

Does this go the same way for a guy telling a guy something DJ? ;) ;) Hummmm! ;)

TommyLewis

09-05-2007, 08:45 AM

Just to clarify...

purposely create emotional connections with girls outside of the proper channels

I do believe, as Andrew stated, that a young man needs to show himself capable of taking headship over his household before entering marriage. When a young man and a young woman enter a courtship stage, there is more of an opportunity to explorer deeper issues in the proper channels.

The problem I see is that, if we guys are honest(with ourselves first), often times the reasons we create these connections is because it feels good to do so, it feels good to fill that role, and it should, because God created us to fill that role. However, if we do it outside of the proper channels, because it feels good, because we enjoy it, because we like to feel like a girl is depending on us, because we are trying to prove ourselves capable of doing it, then that is wrong, because we are creating connections that we have no business creating. You essentially promote yourself to a position of headship instead of allowing God to promote you in His time and under His circumstance(Hmmm...just realized that that goes alot deeper than just guy/girl relationships. How much better off would we be around the Message if we didn't have pastors, preachers, leaders, etc... who have promoted themselves to a headship position of their own volition instead of allowing God to promote them according to His will).

Obviously, being single, I am no expert on marriage and courtship. However, what I am sharing are things I've learned through my personal experience. Take them with a grain of salt, and trust me, I will not be offended if someone disagrees.

jordancpeterson

09-05-2007, 10:56 AM

As Brother Trevor says "Boom!". (I'd give you a green but I think I can't until I give someone else some. Hmm... now who could use one or two...)

BroTrevor

09-05-2007, 11:07 AM

Tommy for Forum Chaplain!

joris

09-05-2007, 03:34 PM

just a few random thoughts/remarks
don't you need to show the potential of being capable of being the head to this girl?Are you capable?

Being an additional peer adviser can sometimes help them, though, as long as they don't become too dependent on you.:confused:Am I being silly as I think something's going wrong if somebody's becoming dependent on you (as adviser)?

(how do you see the opposite? I find myself tending to think others know more/better, especially also in faith matters - that includes girls, obviously, so I tend to be well listening (or maybe asking) for help/advice/support; also of girls - a few, as friends, especially)