Wine & the Christian?

[JoeC]

How does everyone feel about the consumption of wine for the believer?

I don't see any edicts against it in the New Testament and am not entriely convinced it's wrong. What about social drinking? A secluded celebration on your honeymoon (not to drunkness of course!)? Please note that I'm just bringing this up for discussion, I've never taken wine other than at communion.

[collegegirl]

I really like the fact that you are bringing this up. I have the same question myself. I believe partly that it is a personal revelation. I know some people that drink it, and others that don't, (meaning outside of communion). The new testament doesn't say anything against it, even some of the references were to medicinal purposes. Wine and spirits are used a lot in the kitchen, and if you have ever gone to a fine dining restaraunt, then they have probably most likely used it in your food. All of the alcohol is cooked out, leaving behind a flavor. I am curious to what everyone else thinks. I would never personally sell it at a restaraunt (If I was to ever open one of my own, which will 99% chance never happen). That, I think, goes into being your brother's keeper. I haven't fully made up my mind yet about wine usage.

[ancy]

I know that it is wrong to drink wine - for me personally. I don't think that it is ok for me to drink wine - for others I don't know... There's no scripture not to drink wine at all - but there is plenty of scriptures not to get drunk (everyone knows that I suppose). I heard brother Lonnie Jenkins saying this: Since the messanger for this age had the onnointing on him not to dring or smoke or defile his body in any way, the rest of the Body should have the same anointing because there is the same anointing on the messanger and the rest of the Body in the age of thet messanger.
I don't know whether it is ok to drink or not (I know it's not for me - I have my reasons). There is no scripture to say it's ok or it isn't ok, but, then again, there is no scripture about how it is not ok to smoke. I am definitely not pro smoking, I know it's wrong, but there is no scripture against it. Our prophet told us what kind of spirit is behind smoking, so I guess there is a reason why he was against drinking - even social drinking.

JAIRUS.AND.DIVINE.HEALING_ WOOD.RIVER.IL TUESDAY_ 54-0216
E-29 But Jairus had a need of something, he... Down in his heart, he knowed Jehovah still lived. Is that right? So then, the first thing you know, why, the... I didn't mean that I happened to say that little out of season, I guess. I believe that's what they call the Assemblies of God's meetings, isn't it? Well, I didn't mean it only for them, I mean the--all of them everywhere: Baptist, Methodist, or whatever you call... Let the conference then will have to have to put you out. I just--know why I said, "General counsel," I didn't... 'Cause the Assemblies of God believes in Divine healing. Why... I didn't mean it. Actually, I meant if any meeting wherever it was at, you know, whatever the conference was that had to put him out.
And because he didn't--they didn't want to have that kind of stuff strowed around them, where them fanatics screamed, and hollered, and shouted, and cried, and jumped up-and-down, and believed in Divine healing, and all those things. They didn't want that. They were too pious and too dignified. My, the Spirit of God is without form (See?), has no form.
So they wanted all their fifteen minute sermons, and we must go home early. And they didn't want one of these fellows that...
You know that's the kind of a--a person the world's calling for today. They say, "Give us a good mixer at the next conference. We want somebody who can mix good, that believes in a little social drink or a little card party now and then."
But God don't want mixers. He wants separators. He said, "Separate Me Paul a Barnabas." Yes, sir. Separate yourself, come out from among them. God's calling separators not mixers.

A.BLUSHING.PROPHET_ JEFF.IN SUNDAY_ 56-1125E
E-10 What we're doing today, we're patting it on the back. We're calling it this and that and a revival when there's no revival to it. That's right. There's a stirring of emotion, called religion, among the people, but no revival. They had a religious group in that day. They had a stirs in that day. But they needed a revival.
Why, my dear brother and sister, the morals of this nation has become so low till it would make a dog ashamed. It would make a hound blush if it could do so, the immorals of our people. The people, even years ago the things that we have, that the nation has done, the things that the people has done, it's all the lack of prayer. The church that used to didn't believe in picture shows. They wouldn't let their children go to picture shows. They would shun picture shows. And today, why, they even have... They have the picture show in their own house. Every house has a television.
In the place where they used to think it was wrong to drink beer, in a place where they used to think, John Barleycorn, what a great ornery fellow he was... Today sixty percent of so called Christians take a social drink at least once a year. Then they get on a big spree around Christmas when they have their celebration. Because they have adopted education to take the place of salvation. It'll never do it. What we need is a revival.

I don't know... :think:

[collegegirl]

So then that would make it wrong for the cultures who have grown up drinking wine with dinner. Some cultures have to do it because of the water. But there is a difference between spirits and wine. BIG difference. I am having to take a class on Beverage Management. Spirits have a high alcohol content, and usually are meant to get a person drunk, and that usually happens pretty quick. Not saying that you can't get drunk on wine, but it takes more wine than spirits to get you drunk. Usually wines are anywhere between 10%-26% alcohol content, while spirits usually run anywhere from 30%(you are getting a mild drink), to 100%(which would be moonshine, and is illegal because it is pure alcohol).

Beer has historical background. People about 200-300 years ago would drink it as part of their meal because it provided calories and energy, because of the hard manual labor that had to be done. Part of the reason that the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock was because the sailors had run out of beer, and they needed more. They originally were headed for Virginia. They would be the ones that you really wouldn't have to worry about as much, because they run from "no alcohol"(which really you do because it is a fermenting process and you really can't remove entirely all of the alcohol, but there is a very minute amount), to usually about 12-18% Now I would never go out and drink a beer because they smell nasty, and I have heard that they taste nasty. :tongue: Also, It has a very wicked and evil look, the bottles do, and the Bible says to abstain from all appearances of evil.

But even Christ drank wine. I am not saying that sure, because Jesus drank wine let't go get a glass. Far from that. I believe that it is personal revelation. The Bible also talks about abstaining from meats in the presence of a weaker brother who just eats herbs.

ROMANS 14:21
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
I CORINTHIANS 8:7
7 ¶ Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

I CORINTHIANS 8:8
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

I CORINTHIANS 8:9
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

I CORINTHIANS 8:10
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

[blessed]

hmm.. my personal opinion is that we are not to drink wine from reading the prophets message that is the conclusion i have come to. But then that is my personal opinion .. always remember we have to look at the spirit that is behind these things now a days it may have been ok back then but not ok now

[JoeC]

Brother Branham also said that the white should marry whites, black should marry blacks, and brown people should marry brown people.

20-5 057 ...The people would be better off if you'd just let them the way they are, the way God made them. Let the brown race marry the brown race, the white race marry the white race, the dark race, the yellow race and whatevermore, stay the way God made them. If a violet... God made it and it was white, let it remain white. If it's blue, black, brown, whatever the flower is, let it alone. If corn was raised a certain way, yellow corn, don't mix with white corn. If you do, you mix it up, then it can't breed itself back again.
CONDEMNATION.BY.REPRESENTATION.title JEFF V-2 N-13 60-1113
21-3 058 If a mule was--or a jack was a jack and jenny to begin with, let them stay that way. Don't mix them with horses. You make a renegade. Hybrid, oh it's such a curse. Go back to where God started. Let's go back to the beginning. Go back to where God brought us what we're supposed to be.
I say this with respects. I say this with honor. I'm going to Africa. But you know what? To my precious colored brethren and sisters, one of the greatest mistakes this nation made, it made it on November 11, this year. That's was its great fatal mistake.

We have a family in our church with the wife being a Honduran and the father a Caucasian. Are they wrong for this?

This brings up the interesting side issue of how far do we go with Brother Branham's opinions that are not obviously vindicated by the Bible. My pastor says he would take Brother Branham opinion over his any day - but how far do you go with that?

I don't want to cause dissent, but for me and others, this is a troubling issue.

[blessed]

i have been in that situation i have absolutely no comment on this topic there are other quotes on this Joe maybe try and see if u can get all

[JoeC]

Maybe Samurai could shed some light?

[Christian-Samurai]

Amen Brother, Look at me and Hui we are from very different backgrounds. :D and I have been asked about this before AND I have read these quotes myself.

As you probibly can tell by the way I talk about Hui and have seeked her out, that my belief is not with these comments. I cannot say what is on others hearts about this but I went back and looked at what the bible showed about this. I would never want to go against God's words and so I wanted to make sure of this. You say you dont know about going with Brother Branham's comments, I think we can go by the bible and God's word in our hearts. Now some may say using these things from the bible is making excuses. Well I say to them to not judge, just pray and ask God to show them what is right, put it on the shelf and come back to it.

Numbers 12:1 - 2 though 16,
1And miriam and Aaron spake out against Moses because of the Ethiopian women he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2And they said, hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? Hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.

this is one even you can read the rest for yourself, Joseph married and Egyptian woman and God bless his family and you can read about it

All are not all those who are not jews, are they gentiles? and even though Jesus isnt really a jew per say he is marrying a gentile bride is he not?? If we are all of the body then how is it mixed?? The true mix is that of faith. If you are of different faiths and beliefs the bible speaks out and says you should not mix here, but no where does it say not to marry those who are also God's children.

Ruth and Boaz??? He a JEW, a type of christ and Ruth a type of the bride a gentile. The bible shows clearly that it it is not the race of the person but the faith and belief, for we are all christians and all God's children in his eyes.

There are many more examples in there of these things, truely you need to examine it for yourself and ask God to reveal his word to your heart. It is in my heart that God has let me to Hui who is chinese. You can see through the testimony that I have posted that it was not by chance that I met her her and that she was to be bapisted. I was seeking my partner in life when I met her and I prayed alot about it. I believe that she is the one for me and I am the one for her. God will judge what is to be and not we ourselves. I am taking this by faith and trusting in the lord. SO I ask you brothers and sisters search your hearts and ask God to tell you his truth. But please dont look down upon those who believe God gave them this wonderful person of a different background and dont condem them. As Joe pointed out there are those who are already married this way. and what if they had just come into the faith this way?? do they need to split?NO that is not right. AND I challenge any of you to prove that your line doesnt have a mix of cultures and races?? I have a mix mostly of europian in me but I also have some native american in me from my moms side, Does this mean I need to seek out the one who as the exact mix as me?? I am a Child of God, I am from him and that is my race, MY wife will be a child of God also and so I will be marring into my own race and color.

God Bless you and amen :)

[JoeC]

I have a mix mostly of europian in me but I also have some native american in me from my moms side, Does this mean I need to seek out the one who as the exact mix as me??


I believe that Brother Branham said to marry whatever race you look like most.

Anyhow, this isn't what we are debating. It was an example.

The issue of this thread is whether there is an across the board command for Christians not to drink - or if it is an individual thing and we shouldn't judge others acording to how they choose.

Is there any biblical indication against it (what about in Proverbs where it says "not to look upon the wine in it's red color"?) If there is no biblical foundation, how far do we go with man's opinion?

Also, I believe I read somewhere that wine in the New Testament was actually unfermented - basically grape juice. I'll check on that one.

Oh, and if anyone is offended at the nature of this topic, please let me know. I don't want this forum to be offensive or get a bad reputation.

[Christian-Samurai]

Thanks Joe :) Good man that Joe :D

[blessed]

Something about this was bothering me so i asked the Lord for a scripture and i opened the back of my bible and was directed to this scripture

PROVERBS 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is decieved thereby is not wise.
Also remember not because it's someones culture that makes it right.
What are ur thoughts??

[MarieLenora]

For myself, there is no middle ground in one respect: That if Brother Branham spoke it and it's on the tapes, then we should take what he says as the direct commandments of God--like the Bible, but an amplification of the scriptures for us, the Bride of Jesus Christ.

I agree with Blessed. It's the Bible--a book that was written when people did consume alcoholic beverages (instead of water) for sanitary reasons.

But then, I most definately cook with wine. I do make sure that it will cook for a sufficient time to boil the alcohol out, though! :p

[JoeC]

I just did some research on biblical wine. Apparently, biblical wine was mixed with water at presumably a 3:1 ratio.

Assuming that their wine had just as much alchoholic content as ours (9 - 11%), that would make their wine somewhere around 2.25 - 2.75% -not even an alchoholic beverage by ours offical standards (eg. 3% achohol).

Did people ever not mix their wine? Apparently it just wasn't done. The Greek culture (gentiles now) considered it barbaric to drink the wine without first mixing.

My source is: John MacArthur; http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1937.htm


Anyhow, this would apparently throw the argument "people in the Bible did it" for wine right out the window.


Also, check out John MacArthur's continuation of this at http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1938.htm
Read under "question #3" I don't think he fully realizes all that he is saying. But keep in mind as you read these scriptures that we know we are "kings and priests."

[collegegirl]

[QUOTE=JoeC]
Did people ever not mix their wine? Apparently it just wasn't done. The Greek culture (gentiles now) considered it barbaric to drink the wine without first mixing. [QUOTE]
I believe that there was mixing done in the Bible times.

PROVERBS 23:29
29 ¶ Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
35 They have stricken me, [shalt thou say, and] I was not sick; they have beaten me, [and] I felt [it] not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

I believe that there was mixing done. And I also believe that there is medicinal purposes that wine was used for. Alcohol in the wine kills bacteria. That is why the drink can stay for so long. That is why they sell the rubbing alcohol, and why it can be used for cleaning purposes, and could be used to help a sick person. I have heard of many times that brandy was used to help warm a person suffering from extreme cold, and wine was used for sick people.

TIMOTHY 5:23
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

There are people whom the doctors recommend wine for deficiences, (often infirmities you could see it as), such as people who suffer from anemia. You can see this many ways, and so I think that it is all a personal revelation.

ROMANS 14:2
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him


ROMANS 14:21
21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

[marichino_freedom]

i personally dont have a problem with cooking with wine...but as for taking it at communion (or communion at all) i just recently got over my anxiety about it...i cant explain it exactly, i was just afraid to take it. i dont really know why...

[Angelo]

I like wine.... but I was unfortunate I can't afford to buy a lot of them when I was a drunkard. It relaxes the mind of the person that is deceived thereby. And it is the sweet escape of people that are lonely and depressed. But then, it only helps temporarily or otherwise worsen the situation.
And to confess to y'all.... I still get drunk nowadays.... and it is magnified to a higher degree... Before, I use ordinary wine to deal with my depression, I still do now... But a better wine that comes from the preaching of the Word and the Spirit of God manifesting its power to place me in a realm of perfect calm and bliss..


:soda: but as much as possible, I try to avoid softdrinks..

[chocolateismybestfriend]

I don't believe in drinking to drunkness.
At times a glass of wine does the trick to help with sickness though! I'm not talking any more than a glass! and by that i mean a "standard" glass.
And a drink of celebration i'm not against either - my family usually has one for Christmas.
I've no scriptures or quotes to back me up, as i've read alot of them and they are not black and white as to if its clearly right or wrong.

Pray about it, ask the Lord to lead you to your answer for your own personal walk.

[chocolateismybestfriend]

i should add, drinking one glass of wine does not have any intoxicating effects (well depending on the person) and research shows it aids your health tremendously!!!

No substance abuse, whether it be wine, the computer or anything is acceptable in Gods eyes.
Like in all things, in moderation and in balance - its fine with me.

[JoeC]

There is the 'drunkard gene' that I would be concerned with. It's been proven that people with this gene, once getting their hands on a first glass of wine, activate this gene. They just can't stop with one glass.

For the Christian - why take the chance?

[Jeni]

this is all extremely interesting...as I've enjoyed the points u've made and the quote uve brought up.

I know many wonderful Christians who drink wine occassionally...special occassions and whatnot...and feel no conviction. So this caused me to question it as well...

I Thessalonians 5:22 tells us to abstain from all appearance of evil.

One of the first things noticed about me in the public workplace was that I didn't drink. Because of this...I was thought of us as religious.

what caused them to automatically lump me into a religious catagory because of my abstinence from alcohol?

HMM! again i say...HMMMMM

[Jeni]

Its interesting to view us from the world's point of view...because it can be very enlightening...and help us in ways we can't imagine.

Because I save myself from beer...the worldly people i worked with knew I was a believer and follower of some religious sect.

This is important in the fact that...what would happen if I had said I drink wine occassionally? Would my testimony have been as strong?

HMMM!!!

honestly...it would not have. They would have questioned my walk...because they know the things that alcohol can do...tho they drink it themselves.
But my testimony would have been questioned had even if I had tried to put my "occassional drinking of wine" in the MOST delicate, PRECISE way possible.
Do u think the world understands the occassional glass of wine?
The ears of a carnal mind only hear that u drink it....and the eyes of a carnal mind only see the glass.
We cannot save ourselves from their attitude or view...

This has been my personal conviction....because I do believe in the occassional glass...however...maybe its best done in the sanctity of our own home or church? i won't judge others for their decisions of course. thats just silly.

[JoeC]

Good point, even when searching it out for myself (my personal discovery is earlier in this thread), I knew I would never do it in public as I could be a stumbleing block to someone else.

[JMC_785]

It's an interesting question Joe, and one that affects more believers than you'd think. My opinion, (I like to make perfectly clear that it's only my opinion,) is that it should be avoided. You don't want to become a stumbling block to someone whose convictions are strictly against it, you might be someone they look up to and given Satan's tendency to misconstrue everything he can, anyone aware of your partaking of such substance could entirely misconstrue the situation and ruin your christian credibility. My second point is the question itself, as far as I know, Bro. Branham said that if you had a question about something that was difficult to discern right or wrong, to leave it alone. In my mind that answers the questions and I don't ever drink wine outside of communion, however, every christian has to live by his own convictions and I don't preach to anyone that they have to feel the same way as me, so my answer is to pray about it and live by your convictions, if you have the Holy Spirit, no matter who you are, God will make sure you come around to his perfect will.

[Babyruth]

I think a lot of the bad part of wine and other drinking are the spirits that come with it. In fact, they were originally called spirits, back in the old days. There was a reason for that. There's also a reason why bars and other demon-filled places serve beer and other alcoholic beverages. I don't believe in drinking wine or any alcoholic beverages other than the wine for communion. I think it's ok in cooking because it is cooked out, only the flavour is left. I agree with Jeni too, it makes you look bad or causes those in the world to question your standards if you say it's ok for social drinks or drinks for medical reasons. The main reason why they used it in the older days was because they didn't have medicine. Now, we have medicine. Grape juice has the same affect as wine, at least medicinally, so drink grape juice if you need to. These are purely my thoughts, and I'm not condemning anyone, so forgive me if it seems like it.

[BroTrevor]

There is the 'drunkard gene' that I would be concerned with. It's been proven that people with this gene, once getting their hands on a first glass of wine, activate this gene. They just can't stop with one glass.

For the Christian - why take the chance?


Absolutely my thoughts. Why take the chance?

That being said...I am NOT a legalist. This thread almost seems to be a "do" or "don't" kind of thing.

I offer the following scripture to the discussion.

I CORINTHIANS 6:12
12 ¶ All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

Is wine expedient? If we say we love the Lord and that He is our goal and our aim, wouldn't we then want to do everything in our power to please our Love? This is what it's all about. "How can I show Him more love?"

That being said, I thought Jeni's comment was good about "they know what Beer does to them".

PROVERBS 25:28
He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

If you're "under the influence" you may have less rule over your own spirit...and the devil can drive a truck through your life.

All things are lawful, but all things are not expedient.

-BroTrevor

[Angelo]

I really agree with that...


If you're "under the influence" you may have less rule over your own spirit...and the devil can drive a truck through your life.[/FONT]




... based on experience. :peep:

[NeedGod]

i know what you mean. it is really hard to do any control under the influence. we do things we regret later.

[Jezz]

I believe it is alrite to drink wine moderately, the French drink wine and eat cheese regularly and live longer and healthier lives than most other nationalities in the world. Of course the French aren't neccesarily right :p

Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Brother Branham said if he found a television in his house he blast it out with a shotgun, how many of us now have a television in our houses? now computers can be used as televisions, is that acceptable then? are computers acceptable at all given that Brother Branham isn't around to give us guidance on that subject? thats a bit off topic, sorry :p

Personally I believe all things should be used in moderation except for the time and energy you put into the Word, listening to Brother Branham tapes, reading your bibles, attending church and living a good solid Christian life that is acceptable before the Lord. And moderation when it comes to wine, or any other form of alcohol means not getting drunk and not consuming it too often otherwise it will become a leg to stand on in times of trouble instead of the Word which should be the first place we turn.

[JoeC]

The problem with your arguement is two-fold.
You use one wrong (television) to justify another possible wrong. Whether wine for the Cristian is right or wrong, the fact that some people indulge in television has no bearing in the decision making process.
The words in the scripture you used had a different meaning in the time they were used than they do now. What was considered wine in Bible times simply did not have the same alcholic content as it does today. See this post (http://yqnews.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2334&postcount=14).

[Emerald_Draegon]

There are a lot of good quotes on this thread. And I agree with a lot of them. Bro. Branham said, 'But I said, "If it... Why are you asking me? There's a question in your mind. And as long as there is a question in your mind, don't do it." That's the best way to stay away from wrong. If there's one question in your mind, stay away from it. But then when it is perfectly clear to you, then go ahead. Then you can do it with faith.'

I find this to be an interesting question that you've raised, because my pastor just mentioned something about it on Sunday. He said he knew of a church, and the pastor there didn't agree with drinking, but the people wanted to. Some of the people were out in public and had a drink and a drunkard saw them. The drunkard said, "well, the only difference between them and me is that they go to church and I don't." So I don't think it's right to drink in public. As for drinking in your own home--well, like Bro Branham said--if there's a question about it, then don't do it. I don't drink wine except for at communion.

And Jezz...
You said the French drink wine and eat cheese regularly and live longer and healthier lives than most other nationalities but remember: not all French are believers! ;) And if we have Eternal life then what does it matter how long we live on this Earth? If it's God's will to take you outta here then that's up to Him. If he wants to take you home then it won't matter how healthy you are anyway.

__________________________________________________ ___________
Psalms 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart be acceptible in thy sight, O Lord

[BroTrevor]

THE.KINSMAN.REDEEMER_ JEFF.IN V-6 N-8 SUNDAY_ 60-1002
93 My wife (As I have... We'll--we'll quote it again; it seems so well to do it.) asked me, "Why don't the Christian women wear those clothes like the other women do?" I said... Said, "We're all Americans, aren't we?"
I said, "No, sir."
"Well, what are we?"
I said, "We're neither Germans, French, Belgiums, Swiss, Africans, or Americans; we're none of them."
"But what are we?"
I said, "We're Christians." American acts like American; German acts like a German, because that's their national spirit. And we have a national Spirit. That's the Holy Spirit coming from God out of heaven, and you act like that. Makes you conduct yourself as they do up there. Because you are of another world.

[Angelo]

I hope the millenium comes so that I won't need a passport to travel abroad. Every country will be accessible..

[azurity]

Great quote, Bro Trevor.

I think as Christians, we should concentrate more on having more of the Holy Spirit, rather than the French spirit, the American spirit, or even the Australian spirit.

[Jezz]

And Jezz...
You said but remember: not all French are believers! ;) And if we have Eternal life then what does it matter how long we live on this Earth? If it's God's will to take you outta here then that's up to Him. If he wants to take you home then it won't matter how healthy you are anyway.




my last line was that the French arent neccesarily right, I didnt in any way mean to say we should take on a French spirit all I said was they drank wine and it had health benefits.

[Babyruth]

The problem with your arguement is two-fold.

You use one wrong (television) to justify another possible wrong. Whether wine for the Cristian is right or wrong, the fact that some people indulge in television has no bearing the the decision making process.
The words in the scripture you used had a different meaning in the time they were used than they do now. What was considered wine in Bible times simply did not have the same alcholic content as it does today. See this post (http://yqnews.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2334&postcount=14).
I agree with Joe. Especially since you said "how many of us have television in our home." I do not have a television in my home and will never have one.

By the way, I don't mean to cut you down or make you feel bad.

[Jezz]

I agree with Joe. Especially since you said "how many of us have television in our home." I do not have a television in my home and will never have one.

By the way, I don't mean to cut you down or make you feel bad.

I agree with Joe as well ;)

I only mentioned television because if you don't drink wine because Brother Branham said that you shouldnt then you shouldnt watch television, you can't pick and choose. A bad example I think, I'll have to think about what I say a bit more next time :)

[Babyruth]

Actually, it was a good example, just not for believers. :)

[Angelo]

I hope the millenium comes so that I won't need a passport to travel abroad. Every country will be accessible..
I apologize for what I said that is totally out of topic. Just got excited on what Bro Trevors remark about the nationalities.

Please let me also say something about this great topic.
In our country, once you are seen with a bottle of beer or any alcoholic drink outside communion service, you will be considerred a unbeliever or a drunkard, so that means if a Christian is seen outside of church communion he may be considerred one.

In other low temp countries, it is used as a relaxant or to balance body temp. But I think, wine or other alcoholic beverage will have a destructive effect on the brain. I don't have any scientific details on that claim but based on experience, it has a negative effect on the body system regardless of the amount. We can use other means of maintaining health as a Christian other than that like: exercise, fruits & vegetables, fellowship, prayer, Divine Healing! Wow! awesome! whatmore can we ask for?

[joris]

Jesus drank wine
Well... it's save to assume so; remember the wedding when water was changed into wine; now, Jesus didn't tell people it was bad to drink wine, instead He did the first miracle after returning from desert, making even more wine (and it was good wine, too ;))

Also He setup the communion service Himself; so surely He isn't against wine/alcohol; just make sure things won't get out of hand, I guess

(probably just repeating after others, sorry, didn't read all what was written before)

[BroTrevor]

What was considered wine in Bible times simply did not have the same alcholic content as it does today. See this post (http://yqnews.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2334&postcount=14).


thought I'd bring that back to the top since I thought it was again relavant.

[joris]

heh; well I didn't know that one ;)

[NeedGod]

this is slghtly off topic but its slightly about wine. for Lord's supper, what do you people do? we used to sip the wine from one cup but people complained and nowadays, its divided into small cuplets. i feel like it was more of a felowship when we all drank from one cup. what do you all think?

[joris]

last year at some festival we had Lord's supper like that, with one cup; I think it's more like the way Lord's supper was done by the discipels
but then again, probably they had a whole meal, not just a tiny bit of bread and a little amount of wine (ah wouldn't having a real meal with fellow christians like that be something great?)

[BroTrevor]

I've done both ways...from one big goblet, or from small cups. We use small individual cups at the church I attend now.

I really don't know that it matters...

However, I must say, that it probably is more humbling to be drinking out of one cup for some people. That might be good for some... <grin>

[joris]

heh, just to point it out, it's not like it's been a year since last Lord's supper service ;) we usually drink from those tiny tiny cups in church ;-)

[alesha19]

about wine and the christian... i don't think it's wrong for christians to drink wine, but i don't think social drinking is really a good idea. honestly, i have no desire to drink wine outside of communion, but if a person actually likes the stuff i don't see why it would be wrong. it's not a "strong drink" or anything.

[Chemist]

Jesus drank wine
Well... it's save to assume so; remember the wedding when water was changed into wine; now, Jesus didn't tell people it was bad to drink wine, instead He did the first miracle after returning from desert, making even more wine (and it was good wine, too ;))

Also He setup the communion service Himself; so surely He isn't against wine/alcohol; just make sure things won't get out of hand, I guess

(probably just repeating after others, sorry, didn't read all what was written before)

I think one must be careful comparing the customs of that time period and now. The Prophet set many things straight for OUR hour. Back then it was acceptable for men to have long hair. Go with what Br. Branham said, if in doubt, don't do it. Then there is no issue.

[jtucker]

I know within my heart it's not right, but also we are not to lean to our own understanding, read the Bible listen to the message and pray fervantly for your answer, i've already got mine!

p.s. God speaks through men and his Word so don't always expect a lightening bolt or an audible voice, but be receptive to the things of God

[JoeC]

I know within my heart it's not right
This is a personal conviction. I still don't see a mandate in scripture blatantly against wine - and if I am right on wine in the Bible being different in alcoholic content than today then we are drinking far to strong a drink at communion time.

[jtucker]

Yes i know, i was just voicing my opinion. I have that personal conviction. I'm glad i have that personal conviction because without it i would be a drunkard. I came from the worldly lifestyle of parties drugs and alcohol. i know that it's something i would not be able to control. Without God;s hand leading me i would be laying facedown in a ditch somewhere right now. i thank him so much for his Love.

[Angelo]

If wine really will help restore ones health then why not?
But on the walking side of our faith: Bro Branham was instructed by the angel of the Lord not to smoke, drink, nor defile his body in any way because he was to do a special work. If that is the standard for him, then why not ours also? We are individually called to be a Narazite unto the Lord aren't we? We should strive and be more sensitive to the move of the Spirit.
But then, it is true we have our own needs.

[Bradley]

Well, I may be a little late in the forum to voice much of an opinion...But, I do have a couple things to say....
As far as alcohol; good, bad, or neither.....We must realize that everything has its place...back in the olden days, before numbing agents n such, in a war if someone was to be operated on, or a limb amputated, what would the doctor do? He'd load that person with the only thing they had that would help...Alcohol! It's main purpose is medacinal, at least in the course of American culture...then later it became a "Pleasure drink" or whatever....Even now though, if I'm sick....the best thing for me is NyQuill...and, it has one of the highest contents of alcohol of any cough medacine....So, all wine is, is grape juice that is fermented, giving it alcohol and a stronger flavor...I took a tour of a winery nearby, called Huber Winery, and they explained the whole process...Some wines are very low in alcoholic content, due to a lesser time of fermenting, and others have more...etc.... But, to say it's wrong altogether....I couldn't do that......And, if I was in severe pain, and had no medacine..I'd get something strong, and take a shot of it......not in excess or whatever..but, there's a balance in everything. But, I do think that it would take away from the specialness of communion if we drank wine other times...Like, it's a drink we only drink at communion time normally, so it makes it kind of special, whether we like wine or not...it's just the drink we designate for that one time, however oft we do it....But, if we drank wine more than that, it'd become common to us...and, I think that the wine would lose its effect as far as it representing the Blood that was shed for our sins.... I do hope this was at least interesting to read! God bless!

[NeedGod]

welcome bradley. i am thinking you must be the same bradley on xanga? are you. so elly-mae brought you over too? welcome. do go and start your own hread so we can all interrogate you. hehehe! welcome!

[Angelo]

Welcome Bro Bradley...:)

God bless you.

[EllyMae]

Hey Brad! :) Glad ya decided to join the forum!!

[EllyMae]

Yes i know, i was just voicing my opinion. I have that personal conviction. I'm glad i have that personal conviction because without it i would be a drunkard. I came from the worldly lifestyle of parties drugs and alcohol. i know that it's something i would not be able to control. Without God;s hand leading me i would be laying facedown in a ditch somewhere right now. i thank him so much for his Love.

I've never had a partier spirit, even before I was a christian. However, I wouldn't ever drink wine outside of communion. I have no interest in it.

[jtucker]

Good! Praise God!

[EllyMae]

Yes, amen :) That is something that I've been blessed with. I've never had a wild nature. I think that's why it was so easy for me to come to the Lord.

[AndrewMichael]

Personally, I believe with the comments that derive from Brother Branham's message "Don't drink, smoke, or defile your body in any way" more or less implyin that drinking and smoking defile the body. I just don't think it reflects Christ very well to casually drink. I know if I went to someone's house and saw alcohol in their fridge, it would give me a shock. Not to judge, but make me think.

Also, just to add, I do think we should try to not mix races, even though there are many examples where it is fine. I don't judge marriages that are across races, "Whoever God hath put together, let no man make asunder" but some people go to other races for wrong reasons, and children under mixed races seem to have a harder time.

Well, there's my thoughts....

[jtucker]

very good insight thanks, God Bless

[NeedGod]

Yes, amen :) That is something that I've been blessed with. I've never had a wild nature. I think that's why it was so easy for me to come to the Lord.
good for you sis. i never had a wild nature either, but i was so easily swayed by peer influence. i wish i had a sweet calm nature. i am a people person so i am usually all over the place.

[JoeC]

Personally, I believe with the comments that derive from Brother Branham's message "Don't drink, smoke, or defile your body in any way" more or less implyin that drinking and smoking defile the body.

Good thought, but think of it from this angle:

That was a personal command God gave to Brother Branham. It could very well be that God, knowing Brother Branham's gene mix, knew that if Brother Branham started with even a little alchohol, he wouldn't be able to quit.

Indeed, we know that there is an "achoholism gene" and given that Brother Branham had Indian blood in him...

[AndrewMichael]

That was a personal command God gave to Brother Branham. It could very well be that God, knowing Brother Branham's gene mix, knew that if Brother Branham started with even a little alchohol, he wouldn't be able to quit.

Maybe, but he also said smoking as well, and I'm not sure if the Branham family has a smoking problems, or all the other ways to defile the body. I know that I just don't like to flirt with things like this because I know that Brother Branham said if you are not sure about it, don't do it, and casual drinking is definitely put in that category for me, even though I have never had a drinking problem.

[Bradley]

Jesus said "Whenever you drink of this cup, do so in rememberance of me..." when ppl socially drink wine, how often do they do it in rememberance of Him??? Just a question...

[JoeC]

I think the "cup" was symbolic - the cup at the communion table wouldn't be the same as the one at the bar counter. Just my $0.02

[Bradley]

Could be.....I was just asking; trying to view all angles....The wine represents the blood, so to drink it more than just for communion would lessen its true representation wouldn't it? I mean, do we ever eat unlevened bread for anything other than communion?? I don't....maybe that's just me though...I was just wondering how wine should be any different....

[joris]

Could be.....I was just asking; trying to view all angles....The wine represents the blood, so to drink it more than just for communion would lessen its true representation wouldn't it? I mean, do we ever eat unlevened bread for anything other than communion?? I don't....maybe that's just me though...I was just wondering how wine should be any different....
maybe that bread is unusual today, but that's just today
I don't think Jesus sent His discipels out to go and buy some rather strange bread just to make it unusual; I mean: it was every-day food they had I think; likewise the wine was not something unusual - but maybe I'm mistaken -- is there reason to think this was unusual bread and wine? :confused:

[Bradley]

Unlevened bread was only used in certain feasts and such back then though wasn't it? I mean, I wasn't saying it's unusual.....it's just that all I've ever used it for is for communion....Bread with yeast tastes sooo much better, who would go around making unlevened bread just for casual eating? They had yeast bread back then too....and, I would imagine ate yeast bread more than they did unlevened....i may be wrong on that tho....never studied the bread eating habbits of ancient times :p

[joris]

hmm, maybe you're right after all :-p it was pascha after all... though I don't know too well about the customs around pascha of those days :confused: :embarrassed:

[Bradley]

What's the word "Pascha" mean??? I've never heard it before....hehe

[joris]

uhm it's the jewish version of Easter - though I guess the english word for it is "Passover"?

[Bradley]

O, ok....yah, it is Passover in English.....haha...I understand now...hehe

[marichino_freedom]

I've never had a partier spirit, even before I was a christian. However, I wouldn't ever drink wine outside of communion. I have no interest in it.


i've never been interested in it either.....

[Angelo]

"It could very well be that God, knowing Brother Branham's gene mix, knew that if Brother Branham started with even a little alchohol, he wouldn't be able to quit."

I have observed that: remembering the first time I tasted it, though I got so drunk, and swore never to drink again, yet I reverted.

(I apologize I made a mistake on quoting.)

[AndrewMichael]

"It could very well be that God, knowing Brother Branham's gene mix, knew that if Brother Branham started with even a little alchohol, he wouldn't be able to quit."

I have observed that: remembering the first time I tasted it, though I got so drunk, and swore never to drink again, yet I reverted.



Oh, I believe that with all my heart. We all have our right hand and left hand of faith. Some things are easy for us to comprehend and obey, some are not so easy. Drinking, speeding, smoking, cussing (to any extent) were all so simple for me to walk away from. Yet, pride, arrogance, courtship, and self-righteousness took some real beatings for the hand of God to get out of me, in which He is still working from day to day.

[JoeC]

Yet, pride, arrogance, courtship (emphasis added), and self-righteousness took some real beatings for the hand of God to get out of me, in which He is still working from day to day.
courtship?

[joris]

world got rid of me trying to find love in relationships, just as it got rid of me trying to have fun in disco's and the like
don't get me wrong, it did it in a way putting me in a rather dead-like state, hating existance to the extreme (and if I say I feel locked in, it's... locked in in having to live life here on this world; to put it in "christian" terms, locked in in this body, not being allowed to be in heaven yet)

[AndrewMichael]

My ideas on it.........instead of the truth...

[marichino_freedom]

some things were hard for me to let go of...like wearing pants all the time....thats all i ever wore. i used to have such short hair too....but i didnt like it that short (trimming it was hard to let go of)..as was my many piercings...but i did, and i am so thankful i did.

:yay:

[joris]

I think you misunderstood what I said joris. I took the word at what it said. Practically speaking, as you said, there's no way for me to know who it could stumble, but there's a good chance that it would. You seem to think that isn't very good rationale. I don't see why it isn't. I would prefer to avoid it, rather than cause harm. It's pretty simple to me.

I didn't take it as a "thou shalt not drink wine" I took it more as a "don't stumble your brother"If you take it in the broadest sence? You know there are people out there struggling against alcohol addiction. So no alcohol? Okay...
There are vegetarians too. Christians among them, who state it's irresponsable to eat flesh (they have their reasons, I'm not sure how valid they are)

But why stop there? There are people battling over-weight, so you better not eat candy or anything that might cause them to stumble.
You know there are some very lonely people out there. Better not show too much affection to someone either, as it at times break their hearts (I used to be like that. Yes it was jealousy, but that's not the point; don't you think alcohol addiction is tied to sin?)
Maybe you get where this is going

Taking it like this boils down to "thou shall not, thou shall not, thou shall not"

[Benoni]

It is fine, i think to tak wine. Many drinks that we take are alcoholic. Thats why Christians need to have alarms in their lives, that warn them when something is going wrong. But being a drunkard, is surely not for a christian! Many times though, we drink something alcoholic in various ways.I dont think it would b wrong whatsovr. Its nnot a law, after all, its a food, which, when u teach to abstain, u may not have very right reasons,.......???
But logic suggests that we all turn to our conscience.

[JoeC]

Since I brought this topic up, I feel responsible for it.

Just looking over a few of my posts, I am reminded how much I've matured in the Word over the last year or two.

The Word says that strong drink is a mocker. Even if I would start out saying, "It's only a sip, only a social drink, only with my friend or wife or whomever," strong drink may very well prove its mocking nature and laugh at me after I've tempted my own sinful nature and gone too far.

Beyond the fact that Brother Branham used social drinking as an example of worldliness on many occasions, I know for myself that I've tempted my own flesh by drawing a line which I promised myself I would not pass, only to pass it again and again. I've seen the effects in other areas of my life, I wouldn't want to see the effects with alchohol.

Thanks everyone for your input. May you do as the Lord leads you.