View Full Version : Real Quick Question...
AndrewMichael
10-06-2006, 09:49 AM
As I was reading Proverbs not too long ago, I can over a very fascinating concept, which I have prayed to be a revelation from the Lord, and I have yet to see it fall by the Word, so I'll bring it here to make sure.
When the Proverbs speaks of "wisdom" in the hundreds, possibly thousands of examples, is it really speaking of "revelation?"
Be back later for more...
I know that Ephesians 1:17 says
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.
If that wisdom is the same word as the wisdom in the book of Proverbs then it'd be saying "the spirit of revelation and revelation". I'd say take it back to the Greek and see what that says.
Just food for thought
AndrewMichael
10-06-2006, 10:42 AM
I know that Ephesians 1:17 says
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.
If that wisdom is the same word as the wisdom in the book of Proverbs then it'd be saying "the spirit of revelation and revelation". I'd say take it back to the Greek and see what that says.
Just food for thought
Will do... but maybe another way to think of it is a revelation is given by God to a person, the divine and personal revelation of His Word that we all need and wisdom speaks of the proper use of the revelation? That seems to work more fitting with that scripture.
BroTrevor
10-06-2006, 10:45 AM
I don't know that I'd use wisdom and revelation synonomously in a global sense throughout each one.
But to a degree, I'm in agreement.
Certainly the wisdom he is typically talking about is not just wisdom in financial matters, but more so Godly wisdom.
joris
10-06-2006, 12:58 PM
somewhere in psalms is written, wisdom starts with fear of the Lord -- it has to do a bit with knowing His grace, knowing Lord Himself (way big topic I guess)
all "knows" like know in your heart
azurity
10-06-2006, 01:22 PM
Just my 2cents...
I would say that wisdom comes from revelation.
Not the other way 'round.
AndrewMichael
10-06-2006, 02:13 PM
Just my 2cents...
I would say that wisdom comes from revelation.
Not the other way 'round.
Hmm... I thought thats what I was getting at. Like, God speaks-revelation. What we do with what He said-wisdom. Trying to think of an example off my head....
*thinking*
I guess in the case of Solomon. His God given wisdom came by revelation, the discerning of hearts, as I believe Brother Branham spoke of, but at the end of his life he didn't have wisdom with his gift for the fact that he sold it out for woman and served idols.
Just a thought.
gingersnap4jc
10-06-2006, 09:50 PM
Don't know if this will help or not, but it is a scripture in Job on wisdom.
Lord Bless, hope it helps! Mary
JOB 28:1
1 ¶ Surely there is a vein for the silver, and a place for gold where they fine it.
JOB 28:2
2 Iron is taken out of the earth, and brass is molten out of the stone.
JOB 28:3
3 He setteth an end to darkness, and searcheth out all perfection: the stones of darkness, and the shadow of death.
JOB 28:4
4 The flood breaketh out from the inhabitant; even the waters forgotten of the foot: they are dried up, they are gone away from men.
JOB 28:5
5 As for the earth, out of it cometh bread: and under it is turned up as it were fire.
JOB 28:6
6 The stones of it are the place of sapphires: and it hath dust of gold.
JOB 28:7
7 There is a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vulture's eye hath not seen:
JOB 28:8
8 The lion's whelps have not trodden it, nor the fierce lion passed by it.
JOB 28:9
9 He putteth forth his hand upon the rock; he overturneth the mountains by the roots.
JOB 28:10
10 He cutteth out rivers among the rocks; and his eye seeth every precious thing.
JOB 28:11
11 He bindeth the floods from overflowing; and the thing that is hid bringeth he forth to light.
JOB 28:12
12 But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?
JOB 28:13
13 Man knoweth not the price thereof; neither is it found in the land of the living.
JOB 28:14
14 ¶ The depth saith, It is not in me: and the sea saith, It is not with me.
JOB 28:15
15 It cannot be gotten for gold, neither shall silver be weighed for the price thereof.
JOB 28:16
16 It cannot be valued with the gold of Ophir, with the precious onyx, or the sapphire.
JOB 28:17
17 The gold and the crystal cannot equal it: and the exchange of it shall not be for jewels of fine gold.
JOB 28:18
18 No mention shall be made of coral, or of pearls: for the price of wisdom is above rubies.
JOB 28:19
19 The topaz of Ethiopia shall not equal it, neither shall it be valued with pure gold.
JOB 28:20
20 ¶ Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
JOB 28:21
21 Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
JOB 28:22
22 Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
JOB 28:23
23 God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
JOB 28:24
24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
JOB 28:25
25 To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
JOB 28:26
26 When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
JOB 28:27
27 Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
JOB 28:28
28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
eagleendtime
10-06-2006, 10:02 PM
I guess in the case of Solomon. His God given wisdom came by revelation, the discerning of hearts, as I believe Brother Branham spoke of, but at the end of his life he didn't have wisdom with his gift for the fact that he sold it out for woman and served idols.
Just a thought.
I'll differ just a little there. For Solomon did say this
ECCLESIASTES 7:28
28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
finding a good woman is hard. Solomon even in his last days still had wisdom, he just didn't heed it or follow it. Kinda like any of us knowing the rules of the road, yet we speed, and we still could pass a written test with flying colours. Knowing to do right, and doing right are two different things. Lord help me to be a doer.
PSALM 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Revelation Bro. Branham said is God revealing His will, or truth. I say it is different than wisdom. Revelation and Faith go hand in hand. Better yet here is what he said in the Rapture
THE.RAPTURE_ YUMA.AZ V-5 N-14 SATURDAY_ 65-1204
65 But to the church, the Bride, the rapture is a revelation to her. It's revealed to her, that the revelation, the true Bride of Christ will be waiting for that revelation of the rapture.
Now, it is a revelation, for the revelation is faith. You cannot have a revelation without it being faith. Faith is a revelation, because it's something that's revealed to you. Faith is a revelation. Faith is something that has been revealed to you like it was to Abraham, that could call anything contrary to what had been revealed to him as though it wasn't so. Now, faith... That's what faith is, is the revelation of God. The church is built upon a revelation, the whole entire body.
Faith is a revelation. Wisdom is different. You fear the Lord (respect Him), is the starting point of wisdom. Someone pull out a dictionary on wisdom.
Again here in Wisdom vs. Faith
WISDOM.VERSUS.FAITH_ JEFF.IN V-3 N-17 SUNDAY_ 62-0401
57-5 Now, notice, by faith Abel saw the revelation, the vision, and brought a living, running blood; because life was in the blood. Life is in the stem of the--of the flower, and it's botany life which has no feeling. (I was in hopes that would soak in!)
Abel by faith staying with the Word, by faith, not by wisdom, by faith he seen that it was sex, blood. The blood cell comes from the male, The man has the blood cell in the sperm. The hemoglobin, is--the blood, comes through the male. And Adam knowed that it wasn't apples, and peaches, and potatoes, or whatever it was, that brought them out of the garden of Eden, that caused the sin; it was sex blood, and he offered blood back. By faith he done it, not by wisdom. How is a man through wisdom going to understand it, when the whole Bible, and the whole church of God is built upon Divine revelation by faith! "Upon this rock, I'll build My church." See?
"Aw," they say, "sure, we believe that." Then where is the Life of Christ in these forms? Where is the Life of Christ?
Praise God. Thank you for the Table. Got a question, pick the right words and you get the answer - note I said the right words, too often I stumble around.
Jezz, Bro. Branham uses that text in some of his sermons.
Perhaps a summary is in order?
We're talking God's wisdom here, not the wisdom of man, Proverbs always refers to God's wisdom not man's wisdom. That scripture that gingersnap posted says this "But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding? Man knoweth not the price thereof; neither is it found in the land of the living." Absolutely confirms that the wisdom is not of this world. Now that quote the eagleendtime posted is refering to man's wisdom, and it says that man's wisdom cannot figure out the Bible which is why we need a revelation, why we need God's wisdom.
Wisdom comes from revelation as azurity said. When Word opens up to you, when it is revealed to you, you become more in tune with God, more and more one with the Word. I suppose what I am trying to say the more Word you get the wiser you become (God's wisdom) and the more you will be wise like the Proverbs say you should be.
wisdom [wiz-duh m]
noun
1.the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.
azurity
10-07-2006, 07:34 AM
Yes, there are definately two types of wisdom.
JAMES 3:13-18
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
JAMES 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
eagleendtime
10-08-2006, 09:38 PM
WISDOM.VERSUS.FAITH_ JEFF.IN V-3 N-17 SUNDAY_ 62-0401
16-1 And so, the--the wisdom that I want you to get straightened out on 'fore we start... There is a wisdom of God. A wisdom of God is stay with His Word, but Satan in his wisdom tried to twist the Word; so that's the wisdom I'm speaking of.
Wisdom is still not faith nor revelation. Bro. Branham said faith is a revelation. You are going in the rapture by what? Faith - revelation - not wisdom.
We can have wisdom by revelation. But the wisest man in the world failed with the wisdom God gave him. Showing though I have all things, knowledge, faith, wisdom, tongues, prophecy, but not chairity (divine love), we will fail.
The beginning of wisdom was the Fear of the Lord. A realization or revelation of who God is and what he can do. Wisdom is not revelation, Faith is.
Wisdom is one of the nine spiritual gifts.
I CORINTHIANS 12:8
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
No where's in the message can I find where Wisdom is revelation, but I can find faith. The just shall live by what?
WISDOM.VERSUS.FAITH_ JEFF.IN V-3 N-17 SUNDAY_ 62-0401
16-1 And so, the--the wisdom that I want you to get straightened out on 'fore we start... There is a wisdom of God. A wisdom of God is stay with His Word, but Satan in his wisdom tried to twist the Word; so that's the wisdom I'm speaking of.
The wisdom of God is staying with his Word and the only way you can even know what the Word of God is, is by revelation (when it comes to the deeper doctrine any way). Nobody is saying that revelation and wisdom are the same.
AndrewMichael
10-09-2006, 02:24 PM
My main point is that it definitely seems revelation and wisdom go together in a true believer's thinking. I understand the difference from just knowing something (knowledge) and knowing what to do with it (wisdom), but without the basis of Revelation completely from God, there is nothing to build.
I believe we take the gifts of wisdom we have too personally, like we have something to do with it, instead of recognizing the Giver, who deserves all the credit.
What does a mirror have to brag about anyway?
eagleendtime
10-13-2006, 11:07 PM
Kudos Andrew.
There are two wisdoms, two faiths, Human and God.
A wise man will seek revelation from the great Creator. Wisdom is to lean on God. A wise person is one who has Mt 16:18
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