"Fleeces"

[HotShot53]

Do you believe God helps lead people sometimes by their using "fleeces" (such as Gideon used), such as if one thing happens it means one thing, if the opposite happens, it's the opposite, and if neither happens it's not time to answer? How about if it's answered the same way like 5 times in a row, or 3 times in a row with one of the times it being 4 times over? (i.e. a really really low percentage chance of it happening)

[joris]

Do you believe God helps lead people sometimes by their using "fleeces" (such as Gideon used), such as if one thing happens it means one thing, if the opposite happens, it's the opposite, and if neither happens it's not time to answer? How about if it's answered the same way like 5 times in a row, or 3 times in a row with one of the times it being 4 times over? (i.e. a really really low percentage chance of it happening)well... sometimes I find myself asking God maybe do this or that to show me what You want; but also, I think, well, it'd be far better if He just told; but well, for that He needed to be talking, and... well I don't experience that that much (maybe in another way, through prayer now and then -- but that's more like speaking "through" me; though in prayer towards me I can catch Him speaking... still I long for Him speaking directly to me too)

[JoeC]

I think it's definitely possible that God can confirm things through "fleeces," but you have to be careful how you set up the "experiment" - make sure it's unbiased. ;) It you have a forcast of 90% chance of rain the next day and you say "Lord, if it doesn't rain, then I won't do this - but if it does I will. Have your way Lord"

Also, I think we have to watch our attitude on it. It shouldn't be on a whim, it should be don e by the leading of the Spirit and through much prayer. There should be no attempt at "forcing God's hand" by giving only two choices. I like what you said about "if neither happens it's not time to answer." Just make sure it's not a fleece that has to happen one way or another, like "if it rains then this, but if it doesn't rain then that." Well, one of them has to happen and you're trying to force God's hand.

Also, Gideon's fleece actually was for one specific thing and it was unlikely - even perhaps impossible - for it to happen without God intervening. If a person feels led to lay out a fleece, they shouldn't worry about challenging God a little bit in fear that perhaps God won't answer because the challenge was "too big."

[AlanaH]

Good answer Joe...

Also, I have 'thrown out a fleece' a few times, but then when the answer came, I chose not to do it. It was a good thing that I went with my inside feeling because it would have turned out bad if I had listened to what "the fleece test" had said. So I guess it does depend on the probability versus the possibility.

[HotShot53]

I my case, it's 25% yes, 25% no, and 50% no answer... so when it comes back one way 5 times in a row, you can calculate the odds on that... and the other time (a couple years later and a different question), it was three times I asked it, but it came back 4 times over the one time... which hasn't happened in at least the past 5 years I can see, and my guess is it happens once in like 20 years, at the most, it may have never happened before for all I know. So you can see the odds on them both are pretty small...

[BroTrevor]

I don't think God deals in "odds" and "percentages" in His will.

I would be leary of fleeces...I understand that Gideon used it and all, but the concept really has become a way of "reading the cards".

Can we not stay in His presence a little longer to find out?

[joris]

Can we not stay in His presence a little longer to find out?... why is it so hard? how long does one sit just sitting before giving up? or how - how do you actually hear Him speaking, experience Him speaking?
or rather (as "why" questions" aren't worth much) -- how to deal with it, how will it be not so hard anymore, how will Him speaking be... something I'll actually experience way more

[jordancpeterson]

I would be leary of fleeces...I understand that Gideon used it and all, but the concept really has become a way of "reading the cards".

I had a minister tell me yesterday that he didn't believe in using fleeces. He said it was like telling God what to do. I never exactly thought about it like that but I do have to say it is kind of odd. God speaking seems to be so much more of a better way to do things.

I do know one time I was setting in church... probably the most convicting, controversial, troubling message I had ever heard (because of the circumstances and what the minister was saying it was almost making me lose serious respect for him and I was really troubled by that because I had a lot of respect for him). I was really getting upset and I thought to myself... if the lights go out in the building then I'll do this such and such a thing. And I no sooner thought it when the minister almost like if I was asking him the question answered it right there... it really blew me away... although at the moment I wasn't exactly calm about it in my heart. But it was a surprise none the less.

I wonder what Brother Branham says about fleeces...

[jordancpeterson]

The only places I could find where Brother Branham talked about it was for how to do the prayer line (as best as I could tell... didn't read it real well) and he had kind of had a fleece laid out (looked like all statements were about the same thing).

On the same topic as far as knowing the Lord's will this same minister shared with me something I have never heard before. He said there were 5 things to use to see if it is correct to do. My pastor has a personal story of Brother Branham telling him basically the same thing but he used 3 things (or as Brother Branham told him 'lights lining up').

According to Brother Green (my pastor) Brother Branham used the example of a ship captain lining up a ship into the dock yard at night (this isn't on tape as far as I know, just a personal experience). The captain would have 3 lights and when they would all line up and form one light the captain would know to bring in the ship. Brother Branham used each light for something.
1. It must line up with the Bible (Word).
2. The circumstances must line up.
3. You must have a desire to do it.

This other minister that I was speaking with added two more.

4. It must line up with the Message (which really is the Word/Bible)
5. The Holy Ghost must not prick you to not do it or do it.

And this minister went on to say how to discern whether a thought came from the Lord or the devil. He said that watch the nature of whatever it is that is talking to you. Is it convecting (the Lord) or condemning (devil)? Does the spirit have patience (the Lord) or is it impatience (devil)? Is there love, joy peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness or temperance? Or is there hatred, envy, evil, lust, etc.?

Just some interesting thoughts.

[Stanley J]

I just read trough this thread... this is very interesting.
I like the way you answered that jordancpeterson....

Could you please explain this a bit deeper?

1. It must line up with the Bible (Word).
2. The circumstances must line up.
3. You must have a desire to do it.

[jordancpeterson]

I just read trough this thread... this is very interesting.
I like the way you answered that jordancpeterson....

Could you please explain this a bit deeper?

1. It must line up with the Bible (Word).
2. The circumstances must line up.
3. You must have a desire to do it.

Hmmm... I'm not sure how it could be deeper... anyone else? Brother Trevor?

[BroTrevor]

I just read trough this thread... this is very interesting.
I like the way you answered that jordancpeterson....

Could you please explain this a bit deeper?

1. It must line up with the Bible (Word).
2. The circumstances must line up.
3. You must have a desire to do it.

I'll try I guess.


1) lining up with the Word.

Obviously, if you praying about if you should kill your mother-in-law...this obviously doesn't line up with the whole "Thou shalt not kill" part of the Word, and you shouldn't do it.

That wasn't deep, but I think you get the point. Other things are harder to determine if they are in the Word or not, but the principle applies, is there scriptural references or principles that apply to the situation.

2) The circumstances must line up.

Let's say Moses decided instead of throwing his staff down to show Pharoah God's power, that he decided to build an ark like Noah did. Nope, not going to work, no flood was coming.

God works on both ends of the spectrum. If he is leading you to do something, then he is creating a way for you to do it. Sometimes this may not be apparent, but it will be there.


3) You must have a desire to do it.

Given the fact that I believe it is assumed here you are living right and communing daily with the Lord, that is to say, you aren't spiritually asleep or dead, the Lord deals with us many times by giving us a feeling to do things. Perhaps you just feel drawn to pray for a person, and you don't know why. That is a God given desire to do this or that. The closer we are to the Lord, the more surrendered we are, I believe will bring this type of leading to fruition more in our lives.

[Stanley J]

ok thanks a lot bro Trevor!