Preaching Politics?

[PianoMan79]

I'm not trying to get anyone mad by posting this, but I am curious what you think.
On the news this evening there was a story about a church in California (I think) that is in trouble with the IRS for endorsing a political candidate. I couldn't believe it. To me, I don't think politics belongs in church. I understand free speech and all that, but people aren't going to church to listen to someone bash the president or the Congress, or say why one candidate is better than another and persuade their congregations to vote for them. Am I wrong?

[HotShot53]

I agree... church should be where you go to hear about God, not a campaign speech for the local politician... and they are probably in trouble with the IRS cause one of the rules of being a non-profit is to not try to influence elections.

[AlanaH]

I agree...politics should stay out of church. I'm actually wondering if there's a quote about this...
But yes. A church pulpit is no place to discuss political affairs.

[EllyMae]

Yes, I agree.

But, politics isn't going to leave the church, no sooner than religion will leave politics. No matter how hard they try...

[Jezz]

I say bring it on, Church and Politics unite! I mean how else are they gonna bring the squeeze down on the Bride and foolish virgin?

Just another sign that end is coming closer and closer

[AlanaH]

Politics may be fine for them (denominations), but if it starts coming over Message pulpits..then we have some serious problems.

[Jezz]

Is there a "we" though?

If a "Message" preacher starts talking politics over the pulpit then I would say there is a serious problem there for that church but that won't affect me or my walk with Christ. If I was in that church I'd talk to the preacher and then if nothing changed I'd leave. I, I, I stand with the Word, not we. It is your individual walk with Lord.

I dunno maybe my attitude is wrong but because somebody is "in the message" preaching politics it doesn't neccesarily follow that it is affecting the Bride.

[azurity]

I say bring it on, Church and Politics unite! I mean how else are they gonna bring the squeeze down on the Bride and foolish virgin?

Just another sign that end is coming closer and closer
Exactly, Jezz! Well said.


I agree...politics should stay out of church. I'm actually wondering if there's a quote about this...
But yes. A church pulpit is no place to discuss political affairs.

There are quotes on it. Here are just a few that I've read recently...

192-3 PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.5
But that the church and state would come together was truly fore-known of the Lord. The very name Pergamos means "thoroughly married". And indeed state and church were married; politics and religion were united. The offspring of that union have been consistently the most horrible hybrids the world has ever seen. The truth is not in them, but all the evil ways of Cain (the first hybrid) is.
And...
265-1 SARDISEAN.CHURCH.AGE - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.7
You know we are living in the end time. It is in this age that the churches are going to come together. And as they are even now controlling world politics, they will soon control the finances of the world. Then, if you don't belong to the world organization of churches, you won't be able to buy or to sell. You will lose all. Those who stay true to God and keep their garments clean from the defilement of this 'world-system' of church orders will be physically bereft. There will be presented to them a great temptation to give in. Preachers will give in with the excuse that they will serve God within the framework of the antichrist beast-system. They will give in to the flatteries and blandishments of the hierarchy. And the people will follow these false shepherds right into the slaughter. But in the judgment they will all be found naked. They will not be given those white robes; neither will they walk with Him. You can't walk in the spotted garments of the world, holding hands with the devil here, and then expect to be with God. It is time to wake up and hear the voice of God crying, "Come out of her (organized religion) My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, that ye receive not of her plagues." Amen. God is speaking. Shun the religions of this world like you shun the plague. Leave off walking with the world and make your garments white by repentance and the blood of the Lamb. But do it now, for tomorrow may be too late.

And theres like 100 more, as well.

But you're all right. Politics doesn't belong in the church... we need to get back to Christ, not back to political power.

[Nate]

Think Republicans. Last election, every conservative christian was pressured into voting Bush.

That's what it is when churches start controling politics.

[azurity]

Bush is republican?

Forgive my ignorance... I hardly know what party is in power in my own country, let alone overseas.

I think John Howard is Liberal... but I could be wrong.

I wonder how that lines up with the American parties, because Australian politics pretty much follows American... even if they have different names.

Last elections, I voted for the Family First party, which is supposedly a Christian party. But because they don't actually have enough members to put in a Prime Minister, their votes counted towards the Liberals... which means I helped put Howard up there... again.

I seriously wish I DIDN'T HAVE TO VOTE!!

Ok... enough venting. Let's get back to the religion in politics again...

Or was it politics in religion?

It's all corrupt, anyway.

[Jezz]

Republicans are conservatives yeah? which means they're Labor to us

and Democrats are liberals I think which means they're well.. Liberal to us

vote for an Independent which has no way of ever winning, or something stupid like the Beer Party maybe? or the Legalise Marijuana Party?

I have never voted (even though I have been able to for like a year and a half now) so I dunno how it works exactly.

Organisation is of the devil. Christ is supposed to be head of man, man isn't supposed to be head of other men. Thats kind of why God didn't want the Israelites to have a king.

[azurity]

Yeah, Mark voted for the Aboriginal Communist Party last time.

Then he realised what he'd done, so then he voted for ALL the parties.

With those smaller parties (and I got to admit, some of them are just hilarious!!) if they don't get enough votes to count towards the big time, they sift down until they fall into either Labour or Liberal. So no matter what party you're voting for, it's still counts to either of the two "top dogs."

Thanks for explaining the Liberal = Democrats, Labour = Republican. Guess that kinda makes sense...

I agree that organisation is of the devil. The whole political system is.

Argh... there's a quote I heard a while back, but I can't find it! I don't want to misquote it, so until I find it I won't put up what I think I remember, cause I could have heard it wrong.

[azurity]

Ok, still didn't find the exact one I was looking for, but here's a couple I found while I was looking:

HEARING.RECOGNIZING.ACTING.ON.THE.WORD.OF.GOD_ JEFF.IN V-13 N-7 SUNDAY_ 60-0221
207 Politics, lowdown, nation, corrupted... Well, look what they're going to put soldiers in shorts now. Oh, my. Politics, war; politics is at the end. Dictators is wrong. Politics is wrong. (Why didn't they stay with the godly king like God give them: David?) The great lord of England said, when this--when this democracy was formed, said, "It's all right now, but it'll come the time," he said, "it'll be nothing. It'll be all sails and no anchor." And he's right. Said, "Politicians stand on soap boxes on every corner with all kind of crooked things that corrupt the government." And the man was right. That's exactly what's going on.
And...
THE.FOURTH.SEAL_ JEFF.IN THURSDAY_ 63-0321
307-5 {198} I seen the crown myself--stood, oh, that close and looked at it. Wouldn't let me get to it on account of the glass. So there it was, a big lock on it, setting in a case, triple crown; so I know it's the truth. So there he was--triple crown. Vicar of heaven, purgatory, and earth. Three powers united together, see, all mixed up in a color, pale. Death spoke in a whole thing. Political, and--and religious, and--and demon powers mixed together. Politics, he is the king of politics; Satan is. Smart? Whew. Sure, don't try to outwit him; just trust the Lord.
As I've all--went through it before, all smart, educations, and things like that come from the wrong side. Just follow it through the Scripture; find out that's right. Follow Cain's children and see what they become. Then follow Seth's children, see what they were.

[jtucker]

I'm not a democrat nor am I a republican, you see i'm a Christian!!!

The only politics ever coming over the pulpit should be the politics of God's Word!

[azurity]

I'm not a democrat nor am I a republican, you see i'm a Christian!!!

The only politics ever coming over the pulpit should be the politics of God's Word!
Amen to the first part, brother! I agree with that totally.

That's why I said I wish I didn't have to vote. It's so... awful. I voted once, and that was for Christ. But my country don't see it that way.

As for the politics of God's Word... what do you mean by that? I'm getting this awful picture of "church politics," and I'm sure that's not what you meant. *shudder*

[TommyLewis]

I'm not necesarily a proponent of using a pulpit as a medium to make a political endorsement, mainly because I don't believe it is my pastor, or any other minister's job to tell me how to vote. It is my job and my job alone to take the time to examine the issues and decide who to back and who to oppose, or to decide to be lazy, cop out and try to pretend politics doesn't matter. Either way, its my responsibilty, not my pastor's.
However, I don't have a problem with someone stating their opinion, or taking a stand on a poltical issue that has scriptural ramifications. Honestly, if we are educated regarding the issues, a speaker's political outlook will come through, whether overt or covert.
Also, I started to paste in quotes where Bro. Branham took a stand on a political issue from the pulpit, but there were way too many to be able to decide which to include and which to leave out...

[jtucker]

Yes sorry for being so vague. Just meant the Preaching of God's word.

Because the policies of that Word ,the charity, hope, faith, and grace, salvation, sanctification, sealing, everything, every whit and tiddle. all those things are policies of God. For God is our theocrate. the Holy ruler over his Kingdom. We being his children are given this Word which we humbly accept and Amen because we are his sheep.

You see politics are in everything. If you really want to get technical there isn't one thing that is outside of God's politics. For what is outside of God's control.

I would go into elaboration and expoundature but don't want to bore you with my explanation. As well as i feel as most on here including you don't need it spelled out for you.

So i wasn't talking about being legalistic or trying to make a government within the church or what not. The Word is our Government. Just talking about, politics as a general subject also includes politics of God for in the grand scheme of things, it's all up to that Holy Brother King to finalize everything.

On making endorsements yes that is wrong. As tommy said to state ones opinions as in examples and ramifications then that is fine.

[joris]

I sortof dislike politics; I think the only reason that I might vote is that otherwise a voice is lost, meaning I would mostly be voting against the parties that I wouldn't want to have power; however, it's all really symbolic, one vote among millions, so...

[AlanaH]

Think Republicans. Last election, every conservative christian was pressured into voting Bush.

That's what it is when churches start controling politics.

This is so true, about the Christians being pressured into voting for bush. We were at several Gospel concerts around the area, and every single artist we saw was campaigning for him. So naturally, that's going to sway some people that wouldn't have been swayed otherwise.
It's so disgusting...
And thanks for the awesome quotes azurity...

[HotShot53]

This is so true, about the Christians being pressured into voting for bush. We were at several Gospel concerts around the area, and every single artist we saw was campaigning for him. So naturally, that's going to sway some people that wouldn't have been swayed otherwise.
It's so disgusting...
And thanks for the awesome quotes azurity...

Lol, and do you know how many non-Christian concerts were promoting his opponent?

[blessed]

Thank God I don't have to worry about voting, cause I don't vote.

[azurity]

I wish I didn't either, but it's compulsory over here.

Probably because we're all so unpatriotic & couldn't really care who was in power because they're all the same anyway.

So, they fine us for not doing it.

It's easier to go down, get your name off the list & put in invalid forms (because they're "confidential ballots") than it is to pay the $100 or so.

I don't feel that it's my place as a sister to be voting... but "render to Caesar..."

[AlanaH]

Lol, and do you know how many non-Christian concerts were promoting his opponent?

I can imagine....

It's compulsory over there? That's awful. I know I wouldn't want to be forced into something like that.

[HotShot53]

wow, I would hate for it to be compulsorary over here... then you'd have a bunch of people voting who had absolutely no clue what was going on, instead of only knowing a smidge bit....

my mom figures since women can vote, she might as well just double my dad's vote...

[azurity]

Yeah, I agree.

But, if it wasn't... no one would vote!

[marichino_freedom]

i would vote...but i'm just too lazy to register. voting is an important part of being an american citizen, but the whole idea of the church in cali: there's a reason why church and state are separate; if the government isnt supposed to talk about God, then why should God's house talk about the government?

[PianoMan79]

i would vote...but i'm just too lazy to register. voting is an important part of being an american citizen, but the whole idea of the church in cali: there's a reason why church and state are separate; if the government isnt supposed to talk about God, then why should God's house talk about the government?
Amen!!!!

That may be another interesting topic: When do people push the issue of separation of church and state too far? Example: Growing up we always included the "Pledge of Allegiance" in our morning routine before classes, and we always said "under God". Why is it that now people are so eager to sue and complain at the very mention of the word "God" in public schools?

[marichino_freedom]

that, and the whole "in God we trust" on money.

this actually came up in a women's studies class i HAD to take (ick) last year. well, this and the pledge of allegience you are talking about.

basically there was a girl in there who thought it was horrible that God was influencing everything. i brought up the simple fact that our country was founded on God; by people seeking religious freedom. Our founding fathers were Godly men.

she said i didnt know what i was talking about

that was funny, because i knew exactly what i was talking about.....

[AlanaH]

I hate when people get so outspoken about that topic. But I guess they really don't know any better, and someday (sadly), they will find out that they were wrong.

[marichino_freedom]

yes, but what i dont understand is how someone who DOES know better can turn into one of "them" (them being ultra-angry femenists)

i have friends who have gone to "the dark side"......

[AlanaH]

I don't get that either...I mean, what we have in the Message should be everything to us, but sadly, some people aren't satisfied.

[Jezz]

It is because some people haven't had their brains baptised, they just take on the spirit of this age rather than the Holy Spirit. Why? perhaps God didn't call them, perhaps they are serpent seed, perhaps they just haven't accepted the truth yet. Knowing better and doing better, they are just two worlds apart. Anybody who accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as their saviour mentally will always go back to the world or even if they don't and live perfect lives from that moment on they are still not saved any way, as Brother Branham always said "it's got to be an experience".

To be honest I don't see how anybody who believes the Bible could be a feminist, if you believe the Bible you've got to believe that woman is subject to man which is totally anti-feminist. Of course most people just accept the parts of the Bible they like and reject the parts they don't so I suppose that logic doesn't neccesarily work.

[joris]

Anybody who accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as their saviour mentally will always go back to the world or even if they don't and live perfect lives from that moment on they are still not saved any way, as Brother Branham always said "it's got to be an experience".oh how many times I pray for experiencing... ;)
but see, so much is not yet in experience at all; maybe that's because of my mistakes, but... see, His word does say He took on everything such that each and every sickness was dealt with, as well as taking on every curse to set us free of curse, as well as taking away our sinful nature, as well as dealing with seperation from Father and dealing with guilt and shame and other emotionals that have to do with sin
now, you really experienced all that? then, did you also have miracles and things follow you, did you have you bringing people to Christ as well as healing them?

yeah... many truth is still, they are in our heads, and they slowly go into our hearts, but... so much we know it should be there but we haven't experienced yet

[marichino_freedom]

It is because some people haven't had their brains baptised, they just take on the spirit of this age rather than the Holy Spirit. Why? perhaps God didn't call them, perhaps they are serpent seed, perhaps they just haven't accepted the truth yet. Knowing better and doing better, they are just two worlds apart. Anybody who accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as their saviour mentally will always go back to the world or even if they don't and live perfect lives from that moment on they are still not saved any way, as Brother Branham always said "it's got to be an experience".

To be honest I don't see how anybody who believes the Bible could be a feminist, if you believe the Bible you've got to believe that woman is subject to man which is totally anti-feminist. Of course most people just accept the parts of the Bible they like and reject the parts they don't so I suppose that logic doesn't neccesarily work.


yeah.....they come few and far between (anti-feminist).

but plenty of them are out there that pick and choose what they want from the Bible.

[HotShot53]

but plenty of them are out there that pick and choose what they want from the Bible.

I have never understood how you could pick and choose stuff from the Bible... either it's all true; or if you don't believe part, what makes the part you like true?

[Angelo]

Most likely the part they like are scriptures that are in favor of their own interest.

[marichino_freedom]

that or they say: "oh, that was for then". when they say that to me, I always say: "so, when did God change his mind?"

they laugh

[AlanaH]

that or they say: "oh, that was for then". when they say that to me, I always say: "so, when did God change his mind?"

they laugh

I say that too, and I always get the same response: Either no response or a laugh. I guess people just don't think of that.

[Jezz]

Hebrews 13:8, they just can't accept Hebrews 13:8

[marichino_freedom]

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."