Skewed vision?

[BroTrevor]

Ok, so the prayer for a soundcard thread got me thinking about this. And before anyone jumps on me, I know what I'm talking about from past experience, and I don't direct this at any individual at all of course.

I wonder sometimes if girls have a skewed vision of what it means to be loved by a guy. (there was talk in the soundcard thread about dogs loving more than guys...)

Anyhow, I have a friend of mine that contends that all the christian romance novels (or non-christian - even worse) that girls take in skews thier emotions and expectations of what actual guys are like.

Remember not all guys are big, buff, smart...blah blah blah. Some of us are even afraid of heights, so to expect us to climb to the top of a mountain to pick some rare flower to sit in a vase and die in a week for you is a bit much to ask really.

Anyhow, I do think there are some girls, that think a guy is going to romance them, and make them feel all wonderful, and will climb the highest hieght, and cross the widest sea, do backflips to see them smile, bring a red rose home every day, always take thier shoes off at the door...

you get the idea...

I had a girlfriend a long time ago that really didn't want to do anything in a relationship but sit there and look pretty. I still haven't figured out how she thought this was going to work. It was left to me to call, do romantic things, ensure her of my caring, loving attitude towards her... all that stuff. Needless to say, it didn't work out. She didn't have a realistic expectation of what a relationship was. That's 2 people working at it. Not just one.

Most likely, the guy you marry will not be perfect. Sorry, just aint gonna happen. He's going to be human too. He's going to have faults.

Ok, I'll pick on guys a little bit now.

2 people must work in a relationship. If she's taking care of the kiddos, would it KILL you to help with dishes? I tire of the selfish lazy morons that marry these nice girls and think they make the money, and the wife and kids are there to serve them. They don't do dishes, help cook, change diapers... (really, be a man, change a diaper...or are you scared?)

It's like, I'm home from work. Bring me food and drink and let me watch the game. I just want to smack them.



So, anyhow... what should love be like??

Jesus loved by serving... His love had action to it. We should not reasonably expect to be in a relationship without serving one another. Seeing how sweet we can be to one another, and doing whatever we can to make the other happy.

after all - It's not all about me.


Ok, so I vented a bit there.


:surrender

[Philippe]

I wonder if a girl that has so much "unrealistic" expectation about what a man should, become so hesitent to marry with a boy that truly loves her... since he might not be as romantic as the boy she dream to marry and does not exists.

[Babyruth]

Bro. T, I agree with you. It's so funny-weird-amazing. Almost every time a topic of interest comes up here, it gets preached about at church. Just this morning, Bro. Tom Rae talked about goals and he talked about the husband and wife's goals/responsibilities. What you said it true. For me, I'm not into romance novels. I hate them. I'm not into that lame romance junk. But, seeing as I'm not out there looking, I don't really loop myself in the "can't find a perfect guy" group. But, I do know not everyone's perfect. I can't imagine myself marrying any of the guys I know right now, but then again, I'm pretty sure they can't see themselves marrying me. I'm not ready for that, and that's fine. So, I'm sorry Bro. T if I gave the wrong impression on the other thread. I was half-joking. I wasn't meaning guys when I said "why can't people be like my dog," at least not in regards to finding a guy. I was talking about a different issue at my home. But, I do appreciate your concern and your post. It's definately something to think about.

[Chelles]

Actually the reason I say all that is this...there are too many guys...even in the Message....they like the pretty ones...face it. Certain style of clothing...hair....I'm not even talking worldliness. I'm talking about a certain "looK' Guys always like them same girls.....over and over and over again.....

I know I know...now you're going to say....why would you even want one of those guys?? I dont. It's just annoying sometimes.

Same goes for gals...they like the same guys. I'm not real sure I understand what determines it....but it's the same ones all the same.

My dog loves me no matter what. No matter what I wear....

I don't feel I have unreal expectations for a relationship....some girls do...and YES...the get it from these romance novel...christian and not (though I can't see that there is much differance)

And don't get me going on those dumb sappy love novels...maybe I'll start a new thread......:bouncie: :yay:

[Skirty]

Chelles: At church this morning Bro. Tom mentioned that it shows what is on the inside of a man or woman by the kind of partner they choose. I do agree that it can get extremely 'annoying' when you see guys continually falling for a certain 'type' of girl, and vica versa.

I also agree that alot of girls have an entirely distorted idea of what love should be. It can be kind of scary actually. I've seen girls that never bothered to finish school or do any kind of work, get married young, have kids... then wonder... " what on earth happened? It was all supposed to be puppies and lemonade, you mean we actually have to work at it?"
Anyway, I should stop before I really start ranting :)

(Please don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down girls getting married right away or anything like that.)

[Philippe]

Guys always like them same girls.....over and over and over again.....


I've heard someone told that those girls that many guys like... that it might be a spirit of seduction on them and they are not even aware of it (and probably most of the guys that like one of those are not aware of that).

[BroTrevor]

what on earth happened? It was all supposed to be puppies and lemonade, you mean we actually have to work at it?"


"puppies and lemonade" -- sooo funny!


Ok, note to guys as well. I hear some guys complain about how some of the girls dressing. OK, that's great and all. And I hear you and agree.

But it's PARTIALLY YOUR FAULT!!!

Stop flirting with the girls that dress that way!! Then there wont be a REASON for them to dress that way.

:surrender

[JoeC]

Anyhow, I have a friend of mine that contends that all the christian romance novels (or non-christian - even worse) that girls take in skews thier emotions and expectations of what actual guys are like.

Since we're talking about skewed vision, perhaps we should talk about how us guys get our vision of women all skewed up...

<pops open a can of worms>

[BroTrevor]

Since we're talking about skewed vision, perhaps we should talk about how us guys get our vision of women all skewed up...

<pops open a can of worms>


That's fine with me.

Did YOU want to elaborate?

[blessed]

Yeah Joe Im waiting on your answer?

[HotShot53]

Ok, note to guys as well. I hear some guys complain about how some of the girls dressing. OK, that's great and all. And I hear you and agree.

But it's PARTIALLY YOUR FAULT!!!

Stop flirting with the girls that dress that way!! Then there wont be a REASON for them to dress that way.

:surrender

Unfortunately, it's the guys who don't complain that flirt with them mainly... I know for me, if a girl is dressing in a way that I wouldn't consider appropriate, she doesn't have much of a chance with me.

[AlanaH]

I agree with Chelles...cause it's even true in our church. There's like 4 or 5 really popular guys that almost all the girls (with a few exceptions) have absolutely adored at one time, and then there's like 4 or 5 girls that almost all the guys have liked at one point or another. And the problem is, both sides LOVE having the attention of being liked by all the members of the opposite side. And I'm sorry, but that's pathetic. So what if you have good looks or charm or whatever. God just saw fit to make you that way (or you have really good-looking parents:) ), and in a moment, something terrible could happen, and those looks would be gone. Then where do you stand?
Try having a Godly character that a Godly girl/guy would fall for, instead of trying to be the coolest and best looking guy/girl in the church. It's more important for girls/guys to see the side of you that God sees. And you can only get married once, so all of those other people are actually liking someone else's husband/wife if you really think about it.
Once again, just my 2 cents worth, sorry for the long post. And BTW, I'm not into romance novels either. They're so distorted, it's disgusting.

[EllyMae]

Ahh... romance... :love:

KIDDING!

Considering I've only have had 1 relationship, I haven't experienced a whole lot of it.

Very good points have been made, and I agree with most everything everyone has said.

I also think that girls have this misconception of what relationships are really like. Growing up, all girls dream of their "Prince Charming."

Why do we like "romantic" things? Well, why is it that we like other aspects of our life? Why do we have a favorite color, a favorite shirt, a favorite kind of pie? It's just a characteristic that God has imbedded in us. Same as love, romance, etc.

We all like to feel loved and cared for, and that is what makes us want those things.

Michelle... I agree with you. I've noticed this ever since I've become a Christian, that even Christian guys go for a certain type of girl. I used to think that it was only worldly guys, but I've learned differently. Same for girls as well. Why? Is it because they dress a certain way or because they are good looking? I would hope not, but it is true (but not for everyone of course). If that is the case, then I would say that they don't have their priorities in the right place. I'm not trying to judge anyone here, but it is something that I've noticed.

Just so you all know (which I'm sure you already do...lol), not every girl expects guys to climb mountains for them. I don't, and I know there are other girls out there who feel the same as well. I appreciate (or will) the small thoughtful things just as much as the big things.

[JoeC]

Care to describe this kind of girl?

I mean, if her description is "Feminine, meek spirit, pretty, etc..." Then one can't blame the guys.

[jordancpeterson]

2 people must work in a relationship. If she's taking care of the kiddos, would it KILL you to help with dishes? I tire of the selfish lazy morons that marry these nice girls and think they make the money, and the wife and kids are there to serve them. They don't do dishes, help cook, change diapers... (really, be a man, change a diaper...or are you scared?)


Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chelles]

*laughing hysterically*

You know what? it's not always because they above average when it comes to looks.....

I think....sometimes...it's what your last name is....

or...

who you're related too.....

get my meaning?

[JoeC]

No... I'm still a little confused. :confused:

Can anyone give me a profile?

[Babyruth]

What do you mean, Joe?

[blessed]

Care to describe this kind of girl?

I mean, if her description is "Feminine, meek spirit, pretty, etc..." Then one can't blame the guys.

Actually from what I've noticed its the contrar.

Even in my church they guys are attracted to the more "pretty" ones, never mind they can't do a thing. Makes me wonder.

[Chelles]

hmm...sometimes.

but then again....some girls are like all ga-ga over these guys and personaly...I don't even find them remometly attractive.

maybe they are the pastors child?

maybe they are very musically talented?

maybe they are just conceited?

maybe they are just flirts?

Cuz it's not their looks....it makes me wonder.....

[collegegirl]

*laughing hysterically*

You know what? it's not always because they above average when it comes to looks.....

I think....sometimes...it's what your last name is....

or...

who you're related too.....

get my meaning?
Yes, I get what you mean.

Oh, that's so-and-so's son, how popular that would make me if he like me, if I was seen in his group.

And yes, I do..indulge in a Janette Oke book every once in a while, and yes, I have learned some things frim it. I try not to, as it can skew the view on marriage, and takes up a lot of time. I am just sitting back and watching to see how everything plays itself out...

[EllyMae]

Care to describe this kind of girl?

I mean, if her description is "Feminine, meek spirit, pretty, etc..." Then one can't blame the guys.

No, those are good characteristics. There are characteristics a guy can have as well that would be appealing to many girls. Is it their fault that lots of guys/girls like them? No...

[JoeC]

That's fine with me. Did YOU want to elaborate?
I'll try to be diplomatic here - but I'm gonna step on a few fingers.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man A woman generally manifests her lust through her emotions. I'll take the heat for saying that a girl who hungrily gobbles up romance books or repeatedly goes through fleeting relationships has a definite lust problem.

Guys, however, generally manifest their lust in an entirely different way. It's unfair how it goes down. If a girl struggles with lust, everyone can see it. When a girl ravishingly goes through boyfriend after boyfriend, people start to take notice. She's a flirt, she's this, she's that. But the guy with the same problem gets off scot free - nobody sees him secretly flirting with images of girls in his mind... and on the computer screen after everyone has left the house.

So it goes on. Sure, guys hear ministers preaching about it, but there's no discomfort but their own conscious. They don't want to do it, but there's hardly incentive powerful enough to overcome their passion. As long as nobody knows...

I know a man who carried it right into his marriage. He was man enough to give public testimony about it. Fortunately, God is helping him mightily with it. But there are many young men today that are feasting off the inwardly rotten apple of pornography and erotic literature, not realizing how much that's going to hurt them in the future. They THINK they know, but they really don't know to what extent. Perhaps they're under the impression that they're only hurting themselves... but they are opening themselves up to all sorts of spirits, damaging their future marriage, cheating on their future mate, crucifying Christ afresh, staining their friendships through the penetrating power of lust - and don't forget, there's some truth to that quote "the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons".

So, warped views? Yeah, it's not just the girls. And just like the girls who don't admit they have an emotional lust problem, there won't be any guys raising their hand saying "Yeah, pray for me."

But I have one more scripture for you all:

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
One of the biggest things that keep us from fulfilling this scriptural mandate is pride. Most people who really want deliverance WANT to have someone they can confide in. But we fear that the person we choose would just look down their nose at us and be like "Why are you struggling with that?"

But the Holy Ghost filled Christian won't do that. Even if they can't relate, they will sympathize with you, support you, and pray for you.

So for those to whom this is not just another post. To those whose heart is beating rapidly inside their chest and whose spirit yearns for some word of deliverance:

Find someone to fulfill James 5:16 with. Accept it as your challenge for this week and do not put it off. Do it however you have to... one on one bible study, coffee, road trip, whatever. And once you're started, don't stop. Make yourself regularly accountable. It's in these things that lust loses it's power. Lust loves privacy and personal space. Once those things are surrendered, once all false pretenses are dropped, lust is made to retreat - and you've made a grand step toward fulfilling your role as more than a CONQUEROR.


"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

[BroTrevor]

Excellent post Joe.

I sooo started to go there so many times, but wasn't sure if I should deal with that side of things or not.

Forumists... take heed!

[EllyMae]

That is a subject that rarely gets brought up, but you did a very good job in doing so!

Very good post...

[eagleendtime]

So it goes on. Sure, guys hear ministers preaching about it, but there's no discomfort but their own conscious. They don't want to do it, but there's hardly incentive powerful enough to overcome their passion. As long as nobody knows..


I disagree somewhat with that. For the majority of men yes. And does Pride get in the way yes. There is something more powerful then passion. If I look twice, the conviction is tremendous, and I feel someone is watching. It easier to look the other way, and feeling a whole lot better.

With the Holy Ghost, a true son of God will look the other way.

But in this current society, it is a continual battle.

[EllyMae]

With the Holy Ghost, a true son of God will look the other way.



I don't think someone with the Holy Ghost could look at that volunteerly.

[God'schild]

Excellent Post Joe!!!!

[AndrewMichael]

*make sure to read Joe's post first, thank you*

Definitely feeling you man. How often us guys will hold back because of our pride. I know there are times where I have felt "Go to the alter" and pride has come and said, "But maybe people will think you are backslidden." And I have overcome that thought, sometimes I didn't and cried. Being humble is also accepting one's faults and making known that you need God to help you, that your self-will is worthless, only God's delieverence or overcoming power can do it.

On lust.. yeah I think I almost overkilled this subject on a couple post back on my xanga... Lemme find them real quick.

http://www.xanga.com/andrewmichael22/472321760/the-true-temptations-of-a-young-man.html

http://www.xanga.com/andrewmichael22/472610948/the-true-temptations-of-a-young-man-part-2.html

People tended to like these, so maybe you will too! There is no harder struggle one way or the other, but, it is still a different battle (as Joe has alloted).

[Babyruth]

Joe and Andrew, great posts. I think you've dealt with the subject very well. Joe, I definately agree with you, especially on the girl part. So many people don't think girls deal with lust, but I know a lot do.

[FreeAtLast]

Joe, thanks a lot for such a good post.

Just would like to say that I don´t think girls struggle as much with lust as men do. (please notice that I said: not as much. I don´t mean they never struggle). It´s just that I believe that lust is one of the main problems for men in our days - seeing how this world is corrupted by all those filthy things going on, all the dirty advertisment with halfnaked women etc... This does affect a man much more than a woman. Because of his make up as a man (his nature). Bro. Branham even says that a man can be born high passioned.

No doubt it takes the Holy Ghost to help someone to overcome his lust problem.

[BroTrevor]

I don't think someone with the Holy Ghost could look at that volunteerly.

Ever read Romans 7?

just would like to say that I don´t think girls struggle as much with lust as men do. (please notice that I said: not as much. I don´t mean they never struggle). It´s just that I believe that lust is one of the main problems for men in our days - seeing how this world is corrupted by all those filthy things going on, all the dirty advertisment with halfnaked women etc... This does affect a man much more than a woman. Because of his make up as a man (his nature). Bro. Branham even says that a man can be born high passioned.

While I agree that this can be a big problem for men, and true, I think men have it much more difficult these days....I do have to stress that part of the reason I started this thread, is BECAUSE there are girls that do have these issues.

Oh, sure, it seems WAY more innocent... It doesn't seem to hurt any... It's certainly not as "shocking" of a thing... It is BECAUSE of this as well, that it must be looked at. It doesn't SEEM to be bad, but how many marriages could this be the cause of ruination? How many marriages have been ruined because the girl gets some fantasy of what prince charming should be from some book or movie, and then compares to her husband and he doesn't tally up as well???

The devil will use this, just as much as he will use the wrong images of what a girl "should be" to a husband...and would anyone blame the girls unrealistic expectations because her husband isn't prince charming?


(and no, I'm not saying the occasionaly Janette Oake is bad)

[blessed]

Im not sure I agree with the general statement that girls who read romance novels have a lust problem, I have read a couple christian novels and they were downright hilarious, and would read them again for a good laugh. I think it was a couple books from the Bride of the West Series by Lori Copeland just funny :D

[FreeAtLast]

While I agree that this can be a big problem for men, and true, I think men have it much more difficult these days....I do have to stress that part of the reason I started this thread, is BECAUSE there are girls that do have these issues.

Are you talking about lust issues now Bro. Trevor or do you mean issues like that some girls expect too much romance from a boyfriend. I do not call it lust if a girl dreams about prince charming in an unrealistic way (like he would buy her roses all the time and climp the highest mountain for her...).
That is just unrealistic and can even cause problems when the girl finds out later on in life that life is just not a bed of roses but I don´t think it is lusting!

So can somebody please define LUST?

[BroTrevor]

Are you talking about lust issues now Bro. Trevor or do you mean issues like that some girls expect too much romance from a boyfriend. I do not call it lust if a girl dreams about prince charming in an unrealistic way (like he would buy her roses all the time and climp the highest mountain for her...).
That is just unrealistic and can even cause problems when the girl finds out later on in life that life is just not a bed of roses but I don´t think it is lusting!

So can somebody please define LUST?

Call it whatever you will... it is hurtful. I don't necessarily term it as lust... But it is wrong.

[blessed]

i don't get it .... may be i just misintepreted that last two posts. But what is wrong with wanting to be treated special like getting a rose or two, or even a poem. Let's be realistic which girl would want a guy she likes to climb the highest mountain when he may not make it back alive? I just don't get it, there is nothing wrong with a girl wanting to feel special and loved its part of how God made us.

[FreeAtLast]

Call it whatever you will... it is hurtful. I don't necessarily term it as lust... But it is wrong.

I agree to an extent.
It is not good if a girl doesn´t realize that life is just different than some dreams she may have about prince charming.
But I am not sure if I would call that sin. To me it is just stupid, unrealistic and childish.
Whereby I definitely know for sure that to lust after someone is sinning.

[EllyMae]

I don't think someone with the Holy Ghost could look at that volunteerly.

What I mean is the Holy Ghost takes the desire to sin away from us, we no longer want to do the things of the world. I'm not saying we're not tempted, because we definitely are. But, in most cases, I think for someone to look at that volunteerly on a regular basis could not have the Holy Ghost. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

[BroTrevor]

No, It's not wrong...

But not discerning between what's fantasy and reality can easily be, maybe not necessarily WRONG per se, but definitely unhealthy.

Ok, scenario time:

Perhaps a girl marries a fine young Christian young man. He works hard to make a living, and takes care of the girl, and loves her very well. Perhaps however, he is not so great at bringing home a rose every day, or saying something sweet every day, and doing back flips over and over to be extremely thoughtful and make the girl feel wonderful and special all the time. (because, that's just not going to happen out of a normal guy)

Now, again, don't get me wrong...this young man does a fine job of being a husband.

Then, the girl starts reading some book, or watches some movie... and the guy is unrealistically being disgustingly sweet to this girl all the time. I mean come on, guys have to work 8 hours of the day, they just can't be contriving new thoughtful ways to show their love in a new and different way all the time. But in this movie or book, the guys does...

The girl COULD begin to think... "I wish my husband did that more..." or "I sure wish my husband would think to ask me what my favorite rose color is instead of getting me red all the time... (never mind that you've told him they were perfect everytime he got them for you and never mentioned you liked other colors) You just assume he should be smart enough to ask like the guy in the movie or book.

I tell you, that's enough of a gateway for the devil to get in there and begin to bring resentment.

That's all I'm saying.

Not saying always... not saying a girl can't discern the difference between the two. All I'm saying is, that if a girl feeds off of a fantasy of a portrayal of some dreamy guy in a book or movie of what guys "could be" but aren't necessarily always, and desires that in her heart, how is it different than when a guy feeds off of a fantasy picture of what a girl "could be" but isn't necessarily always?


I hope that helps you understand what I am saying.

[BroTrevor]

But I am not sure if I would call that sin. To me it is just stupid, unrealistic and childish.

I will agree with this.

However, if a girl is stupid, unrealistic, and childish, and such actions cause a divorce....

She done sinned....

[BroTrevor]

What I mean is the Holy Ghost takes the desire to sin away from us, we no longer want to do the things of the world. I'm not saying we're not tempted, because we definitely are. But, in most cases, I think for someone to look at that volunteerly on a regular basis could not have the Holy Ghost. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)


Just do a thorough read of Romans 7. It's all about desires really.

To go and voluntarily do something... that is one thing.

However, the devil goeth about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour....

This is especially true for guys these days, who are bombarded with images on billboards, magazines, and ones walking around live, indecently dressed. They have to constantly filter and reject thoughts about ever 2 seconds in such situations...

It is very concievable to fall...

ROMANS 7:22
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
ROMANS 7:23
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


What? Paul was saying he was "brought into captivity to the law of sin which is in his members"

I believe he had the Holy Ghost.

However....

I believe we are to:

ROMANS 13:14
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

[JoeC]

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Taken the above verse, I agree with you, EllyMae. But I also agree with Brother Trevor. Someone can fall in sin, not wanting to do it in his heart. The Holy Ghost is in his heart, no way can there be a desire for the world. But, we do manifest a desire for the world through our flesh.

It's a great paradox that everyone of us has experienced. We all find ourselves dabbling in the world from time to time. We're sin born creatures and we won't get away from it as long as we live.

If a Holy Ghost filled Christian has not disciplined himself towards the desire that lays inherit in his changed heart, he can become bound by the flesh. It's not a Filled or un-Filled issue. It's an issue of being disciplined or undisciplined.


P.S. I also dealt with the issue of true desire more in depth here (http://yqnews.org/forums/showpost.php?p=740&postcount=1).

[FreeAtLast]

I understand what you are saying Br. Trevor.

I was just wondering if you guys really believe that girls have as much real lust problems as men.

What I mean with lust problems Joe defined quite well:

But there are many young men today that are feasting off the inwardly rotten apple of pornography and erotic literature, not realizing how much that's going to hurt them in the future. They THINK they know, but they really don't know to what extent. Perhaps they're under the impression that they're only hurting themselves... but they are opening themselves up to all sorts of spirits, damaging their future marriage, cheating on their future mate, crucifying Christ afresh, staining their friendships through the penetrating power of lust - and don't forget, there's some truth to that quote "the sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons"

Yet on the other hand I don´t think that a girl who reads christian-romance novels commits fornication in her mind like a boy would do while watching pornography. It is just not the same.

A Girl dreaming too many unrealistic dreams can be a problem in the future.

But nevertheless to lust after someone is mainly a guy problem!
Just wanted to make that clear that I honestly think that men have a WAY BIGGER problem with lust because of the way they are made.

For instance: I believe it is way more easier for a girl to stay single the rest of her life than for a guy because of his make up.

[Nate]

I've been around worldly young people probably a lot more than most message kids. I wasn't raised in the message. My dad's not a christian, and hey, I worked at Disney World, home of Satan's candy store.
And from what I've seen and heard, sexual desires, and lust are about equal between both sexes. And they really don't manefest much differently either.

[EllyMae]

But nevertheless to lust after someone is mainly a guy problem!
Just wanted to make that clear that I honestly think that men have a WAY BIGGER problem with lust because of the way they are made.

For instance: I believe it is way more easier for a girl to stay single the rest of her life than for a guy because of his make up.

This isn't about who has a bigger problem with lust.

Lust is lust, it doesn't matter who is committing the sin.

[BroTrevor]

FreeAtlast,

Agreed, I know it's harder for me and all guys.

The point i wish to make however, is that does not NEGATE the fact, that it is a possibility a girl may be having the wrong desires while reading a romance book, or watching a movie.


I think the difference is, I don't see how a guy can NOT lust viewing the wrong material.... however, I can understand how a girl can read christian novels and not have the wrong desires.

Again, I am saying that it is a possibility, and should be raised to awareness, because I do believe this has hurt marriages.


I also raise another thought. Back in my teenage days, the girls all thought it was ok for them to watch a love scene in a movie, but it wasn't for guys. The arguement was exactly the on you made, guys make up is different, they can't watch that and not sin.

I agree with that arguement...guys can't watch that and not sin...

But is it healthy for the girls?

GOD.KEEPS.HIS.WORD_ STURGIS.MI TUESDAY_ 57-0115
E-28 Put television out way it is now, and uncensored programs of all this vulgarity and everything. Let a little boy go. The gate is the eye to the soul... The eye is the gate to the soul, rather. Let him go in and, let these little girls go into one of these movies, or something, or other and see one of these here women out of Hollywood with eight or ten husbands, making love to some man. That little girl will practice the--the same thing the next day. Let some fantastic, nonsense come out out there with some kind of a little old scandal looking skirts on or something or other like that, and watch the American women go to wearing the same thing. That's right. See, you catch each other...
What you feed on...



----------------------------

I post the below for thoughtful, but not legalistic, consideration....

A.SECONDHANDED.ROBE_ BROOKLYN.NY THURSDAY_ 56-1206
E-20 Now, we find that this school of the prophets, how it turned out to be. I'd imagine every prophet there... When Elijah came up, we seen they didn't live the right kind of life, for they said, "It's too strict for around here when Elijah comes around." I imagine if--if it'd be today, they'd make them get rid of all their television programs, and all their old love story magazines, and quit their smoking and drinking, and all these things, and clean up.

Although, I can't be sure what a "love story magazine" is...


THE.PHILADELPHIAN.CHURCH.AGE_ JEFF.IN ROJC 373-423 SATURDAY_ 60-1210
183 Now, it's just like if you was reading a love story. And you... That's the last book of Matthew, last part of Matthew. If you picked up a love story, some of you ladies... I know you don't do it; sure you wouldn't do that; no, no. See? But if you did it when you was a sinner (See?), you picked up the story down in the... You know, when you was a little old girl, and you picked up this story, said, "John and Mary lived happy ever after." Huh. Who's John and Mary? Now, there's only one way for you to know who John and Mary is; that's go back to the first of the book and read it. Is that right?


THE.WATER.BAPTISM_ BEAUMONT.TX THURSDAY_ 61-0119A
E-37 Now, you all wasn't always Christians. You were born in sinners. I imagine as a little girl... (I don't know whether you did or not, but I'm going to take all of us in the room, to make an illustration here now, so that you'll understand.) When you were little girls, say you read love story magazines. Most all little girls do. Any kind of a magazine; it wouldn't have to be a love story--any story. See? Nice. Could not have been one of these modern bookstand stories, but any story, even Romeo and Juliet. See? Why you... You read a love story. And I'm showing you this way now, so that you can catch it in a parable.


(I think the case could be made there are nice love stories and not nice love stories...)

I guess those quotes aren't really my point at all, but again, I'm just trying to raise awareness to an issue that I think is downplayed because it doesn't SEEM harmful...

At least as not as harmful as it is for guys....

[JoeC]

A woman generally manifests her lust through her emotions. I'll take the heat for saying that a girl who hungrily gobbles up romance books or repeatedly goes through fleeting relationships has a definite lust problem.

I just wanted make it clear that it is the girl who can't get enough romances whom should check herself. Oh, and by the way, all those message girls that can't move in their dresses without sinning? Lust problem. Granted that some do it unknowingly, but very few.

[FreeAtLast]

This isn't about who has a bigger problem with lust.

Lust is lust, it doesn't matter who is committing the sin.

EllyMae I don´t think you got what I was trying to say.

I was just trying to point out that we are talking about 2 different issues: One is lust and the other one is about unrealistic future-dreams some girls might have. That is just not the same to me.

[FreeAtLast]

I also raise another thought. Back in my teenage days, the girls all thought it was ok for them to watch a love scene in a movie, but it wasn't for guys. The arguement was exactly the on you made, guys make up is different, they can't watch that and not sin.

I agree with that arguement...guys can't watch that and not sin...

But is it healthy for the girls?

Definitely not healthy at all. And I don´t think a girl should watch stuff like that either.

No doubt the prophet is right when he said: We become what we feed on.

I don´t even support those christian-romance novels. I used to read them some time ago. But I threw them away (not because I had wrong sexual desires while reading them - talking here about Jeanette Oke type of books) just simply because they were a cheap substitute and stole my precious time.
Please notice that I don´t have a problem with girls reading some of those books once in a while (as long as this is not the thing she is feeding on all the time).

[EllyMae]

EllyMae I don´t think you got what I was trying to say.

I was just trying to point out that we are talking about 2 different issues: One is lust and the other one is about unrealistic future-dreams some girls might have. That is just not the same to me.

I understood what you were trying to say... :) Sorry, I was just trying to point that out.

Pornography and such are very obvious lustful. However, reading a romance novel, and I think we've all agreed that in itself isn't lustful, but it can became a problem if you let it. So, no matter how innocent it seems, a girl could have a problem with lust and not even know it. However, for guys, theirs is a lot more obvious.

[joris]

So, warped views? Yeah, it's not just the girls. And just like the girls who don't admit they have an emotional lust problem, there won't be any guys raising their hand saying "Yeah, pray for me."a couple of months ago I did just that - then immediately it got removed because of? I don't know? maybe to pretect me from legalistic attacks? I wouldn't know why it got removedI don't think someone with the Holy Ghost could look at that volunteerly.I think nobody can understand the sins (or the reason why some temptation may be tempting) of another unless he/she had to fight it personally

[eagleendtime]

what we read and watch affects our lives. Infulences us.

Prophet said so. and studies have bore this out. What has TV done to our society. We feed on what we read. Fantasy for both sexes is in all liklelihood unhealthy

Lust? comes in many forms, it could be knowledge, the american love affair (the auto), beauty, nature, etc.

Eve lusted for knowledge. She got it too.

Women do lust after men. "oh his feet are so cute" Or a a handsome man.

But what was the fall all about? What happened before Noah? What's suppose to happen at the end? SEX. perversion. Both sexes, are party to this. It takes two tango or argue. So goes the sayings.

It just comes out differently for both. She dresses sexxy, not really knowing it, because of a lust spirit, and he lusts (thinking it's ok).

There is something else we should add to our pollution list.

MIND POLLUTION!!!

You watch something or read something, let's say Saturday night. Not the Word or Word oriented. What happens sunday morning, in church? Thoughts about last night. Oh been there expierenced it. Satan just loves to get us distracted and pollute our minds.

[Jezz]

I don't think someone with the Holy Ghost could look at that volunteerly.

In Unpardonable Sin he said:

Many years ago, I preached the water baptism in Jesus Christ's Name. Many years ago, I preached the cleansing of the human soul by the Blood of Jesus Christ, through sanctification. I preached the baptism of the Holy Ghost as a confirmation, or the sealing of God's people away in the Kingdom. You know that's right. I taught Divine healing. I taught the second coming. I taught feetwashing. I taught communion. I taught holiness before the Lord. I taught all those things to begin with. I taught speaking in tongues, not the evidence of the Holy Ghost. I taught shouting, not the evidence of the Holy Ghost. There's none of those things you can say is the evidence of the Holy Ghost, or the only evidence. It might be the evidence the Holy Ghost is there. Singing might be the evidence the Holy Ghost is there. Talking might be the evidence the Holy Ghost is there. Any of the signs might be, and yet it's not infallible. There's only one Person Who can say the Holy Ghost is there; that's God Himself. He is the Judge. I've seen them sing; I've seen them talk; I've seen them shout; I've seen them speak with tongues, and all those things, and didn't. Their fruits proved that they didn't have It.

----

See by their fruits ye shall know them, fruit is Word, not actions but Word.

[--faithful_star06--]

i agree with what you've all posted, thanks to those who "hit the nail on it's head" with their comments, and scriptural and message book references.
~lo~

[--faithful_star06--]

what, did i just kill this thread? :y10:

~lo~

[collegegirl]

No you didn't, but I do want to thank you for drawing my attention back to this thread.

[azurity]

Ok, so this is a big thread, and definitely covers more than 1 topic!! Somehow we've gone from "skewed vision of love & marriage" to lust... which I guess could come down to the same thing, anyway. But I haven't posted in here yet, so here's my 2 cents (on more than 1 topic, so you're getting a pretty good deal here!)

As a female, I can remember going through the whole "princess syndrome" where everything was tiaras and bouquets, until I started watching other married couples around me and seeing that none of them exactly looked happy. In fact, it looked like awfully hard work, and I vowed that there was no way I was "spending the rest of my life cleaning up after some man & his kids."

Of course, that was then, and I've grown up since then, too... maybe, just a little.

So there is definitely a "Princess Syndrome" with the girls. I'm still trying to work out what the equivalent of that is for the guys... is there a "Prince's Syndrome?" I reckon it must have something to do with being sick of heating up his own 2-minute noodles.

As for the lust thing... I do think that it's a little different for guys & girls. I'm not a guy... I don't think like a guy, I don't feel like a guy (and I hope I don't look like one!) but these articles kinda help you think how it must be for them out there:

This article (http://fearlesslyfeminine.blogspot.com/2006/01/letter-from-christian-guys.html) wasn't even written by "Message believers," but it really helps the girls understand where guys are coming from.

There were similar articles (http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=77&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=249&tx_ttnews=3) by No Greater Joy. That chapter in the book is one of the only parts I've read, and it's pretty good.

Ever since reading that, it's kind of made me realise what guys have to go through. Us girls are made differently, there is no disputing that. For us, there is definitely no attraction in seeing a guys hairy knees... it's actually kinda repulsive. But for guys, it's those things that trigger lust & everything else, whether he wants his mind to go there or not.

Brother Branham said just as much:

[B]MARRIAGE.AND.DIVORCE_ JEFF.IN V-3 N-13 SUNDAY_ 65-0221M
248 And you, some of the women, put on these nasty clothes and get out here to throw yourself before man. Jesus said, "Whosoever looketh upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." Then who is guilty, the man or you? He is a male, made so he could take this act, see; and you're the female, that ought to refuse.
249 And why do you put yourself out like that? It ain't for comfort, you know it can't be, when you're half froze to death with them shorts on. See, can't be for comfort. Then what is it? It's for filth! You won't admit it, but it's the Bible says so. It's the Truth. It's a filthy spirit that's in you. You don't want to be filthy; but you don't realize, spiritually you are filthy, because you're presenting yourself filthy.
250 Now, a man, his old, dirty, knotty knees, and if he had on hardly any clothes at all, wouldn't make any difference, his body is not tempting. Why? He was in the original creation, character; should be, see. But, you're the by-product, to tempt by.
251 God, have mercy! Oh, my, this sinful world! I'll be glad when it's over.
I believe once the Holy Ghost comes in, tho, it allows a way of escape.

THE.RESURRECTION_ WEST.PALM.BEACH.FL SATURDAY_ 53-1205
And I said, "Oh, brother, I different with you." I said, "I believe that the Holy Spirit is here. He's the One that fills us. And our life is not our own, but it's the Life of the Holy Spirit in us that makes us Christians." I believe that, that ever fiber of a Christian's body is controlled by the Holy Spirit. I believe that your eyes are. You can't help when you look to see an evil, but if you lust after it, you've already committed adultery. You turn your head. The Holy Spirit makes you do that. Is that right? You might be tempted. Temptation is not sin. Heeding your temptation is sin. See? You can be tempted. Christ was tempted like we are, but never sinned. So the Holy Spirit is God that helps us bear out the truth of God, and we're written epistles read of all man.
And again...
HEBREWS.CHAPTER.SEVEN.1_ JEFF.IN HEB SUNDAY_ 57-0915E
152 And you deacon, and you others here, that run out on the street here, and gawking your neck and looking at every one of them women. Shame on you; and calling yourself "sons of God." I know that's scorching, but you rather be scorched than then burnt forever there. So if you do those things... Now, you can't help it if a woman walks down the street, half dressed. You, if you're looking, you're bound to see her, but you can turn your head. The Bible said, "Whosoever looketh upon a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in your heart."

(I'm not going to turn this post into a girls-dressing-standards post, because that's not what the thread's about... but c'mon... how much clearer can it be?)

As for the girls, reading romance books, watching romantic videos... I've been there, too. Tho I can't say I read over 5 Christian Romance Novels. They bore me. They're all the same. You only have to read the back cover to know that John is going to meet Mary and they're going to fall in love, and John's going to be converted to Christianity out of his love for Mary somewhere in the process. I love reading, but seriously... those books drive me crazy.

And the movies... they gross me out. I used to watch girly movies every now and then, but the last time I did pretty much put me off them for life. The desire to watch those things is gone.

I think sometimes girls (and guys) use these things to fill that hunger that is actually placed there by God, and can only be filled with by Him. Once you come to that place, then being with Him & feeding on His word makes you feel so much better than the secular "rubbish" that is out there.

There's no real joy in any of those things. I'm not saying people are WRONG for reading/watching them... but if they're looking for joy & happiness, they're looking in the wrong place. The only real joy is in Jesus Christ.

(I feel like I need to take a bow after that seminar I just delivered... hehe, thank you, thank you...)

[AlanaH]

Nice post Azurity...and don't let me forget to give you some green after I spread it around a little bit...:)

[God'schild]

Excellent post!!! thank- you so much for posting that..

God bless you richly..

[azurity]

Thanks AlanaH & God'schild!!!

But I think I just killed this post, anyway.

Maybe I was wrong with my 2 minute noodle theory after all...

[eagleendtime]

We all have weaknesses which needs strengthening. Remeber it is to "He that overcomes". It is a battle, but character is a victory. Sons of God must learn to turn the head, listen to that still small voice. Whatever we read, should be filtered try "What would Jesus do?" or better "Would Jesus read this?"

[God'schild]

it's character in the guy that makes him hansome or the character in the Girl that makes her beautiful(for me at least) it depends on the person attitude. The guy may not have looks at all but have an AWESOME personality, or the guy could be very hansome but have a bad personality. Same goes for the girl.

[marichino_freedom]

absolutely. :juggle: