Discerning Your Desires

[JoeC]

Has anyone here ever transgressed, fallen short of the glory of God, and sinned? Of course! Well, what about this: Do you enjoy it?

I do. I enjoy it at the time. Otherwise we wouldn't have continued in our error for very long, right? If you have a problem with your temper, yelling at people and letting that steam off feels good at the time. If you have a problem with lust, entertaining those thoughts or wearing those clothes feels good at the time. If you have a problem with worldly music, listening to that feels good at the time. Doesn't it?

We know it does. We can't deny it. If we didn't find it pleasurable at all, then we would never do it.

So now I arrive at the crux of this post. You see, I find that after I am done "returning to the vomit" of the world as it were, and feel the full weight of what I've done settle upon me, there is a staggering question presented to me.

If I have the Holy Ghost, really have it, then shouldn't my desires be different than this? Holy Ghost filled Christians are supposed to no longer have the desire for the world. So then, do I really have the Holy Ghost?

Intimidating question, isn't it? Sounds legitimate, doesn't it? But I think it's a sleight of hand trick by our adversary. You see, it's not a question of whether a Holy Ghost filled Christian can have the desires for the world. It's a question of whether what we did is really what we desire.

As Holy Ghost filled Christians, we desire God and the things of God. But many times we find ourselves dabbling in the things of the world. So, is this evidence of conflicting desires in our heart? No! Just because we enjoy something doesn't mean we desire it. Likewise, just because we desire something, it doesn't mean we always enjoy it.

I desire a college degree. I don't always enjoy doing what it takes to get it, but I desire it.
Likewise, I don't ever desire to hurt people's feelings, but in the heat of the moment I may temporarily enjoy hurting someone's feelings. You see?

So can a Christian enjoy sin? Yes. Is that evidence of their nature not having been changed by the Holy Ghost? No. Does that mean they desire to sin? No.

Does anyone see what I'm saying?

In closing, here's my definition of the kind of desires God changes through his Holy Spirit:

Desire: A earnest and continual longing.

I think we can all say that we have an earnest desire for him, and come what may we continue to long for him. Also, if we have the Holy Ghost, we will not have this kind of desire for sin. Perhaps a passing whim, but not an earnest and continual longing for.

Any comments? Insights?

[Babyruth]

I totally agree with you. A minister said that when we do things we shouldn't do, we know right away that we shouldn't have done them, and we feel terrible for doing them. We immediately want to ask for forgiveness, without having to be reminded. We aren't like children who, when they get caught stealing cookies, then feel sorry, after they've been caught. Instead, there's something inside of us that lets us know right away that it was wrong and we need to make it right.
So many times I get upset, and know while I'm upset that it's wrong and I shouldn't yell or say what I'm saying (not swearing, just with a temper), and after I do it, I immediately talk to God about it. I think it's a test that God continually gives us until we get it right. As a Christian, we do not completely fail. We take the test that God sees fit for us, and we may fail that time, but God just throws it away and gives it to us again and again until we get it right because with God, we can't fail. Of course, we cannot willingly do wrong and always expect God to forgive us, it's our approach and knowing that we really didn't want to do wrong, we just gave into it because we are human and that part of our character hasn't developed all the way yet.
Hope this makes sense.

[collegegirl]

Of course, we cannot willingly do wrong and always expect God to forgive us, it's our approach and knowing that we really didn't want to do wrong, we just gave into it because we are human and that part of our character hasn't developed all the way yet.
Hope this makes sense.

It makes sense. Of course, the Bible verses that come to mind are the ones from Romans 6:1-2,

"What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

There are plenty of times that I have done wrong. I know I have done wrong, but I can't apologize right away because I have to cool down first. I really don't believe in the forgetting and forgiving, unless I am doing it. There is someone I know who forgets about it kindof quickly, and says that is when she forgives. I don't believe that for me. I can't do that. I have to apologize, otherwise it lays heavily on me. I also believe that when you get mad, the other person gets mad as well, (most of the time), and should also ask for forgiveness, for helping provoke and continuing the argument.

Has anyone here ever transgressed, fallen short of the glory of God, and sinned? Of course! Well, what about this: Do you enjoy it?

I do. I enjoy it at the time. Otherwise we wouldn;t have continued in our error for very long, right? If you have a problem with your temper, yelling at people and letting that steam off feels good at the time. If you have a problem with lust, entertaining those thoughts or wearing those clothes feels good at the time. If you have a problem with worldly music, listening to that feels good at the time. Doesn't it?

We know it does. We can't deny it. If we didn't find it pleasurable at all, then we would never do it.

Unfortunately, yes. I think that sometimes, it is harder for girls, though, because they have so much more to be tempted with. There are things that I have done that I enjoyed at the time, that afterwards I felt awful about, and then there are things that I have done that I did that I knew was wrong, and even though I knew it was wrong and I corrected it, my flesh still desired it. I will share with you a story. I had read a book at the library, and it was kindof cool, it was set in the medieval ages. It had some reference to seer stones, and magic, but I just passed it off. Then I ended up owning the first book and second book in one book, and I really enjoyed it. I must have read that book several times through I enjoyed it that much. I went to Winter Youth Retreat, and I felt convicted of the book. One of the easiest, but hardest things to do was to throw the book away. I love books. I am a bookworm, but I knew, even though I still enjoyed that book, I knew it was wrong. When I got home, one of the first things I did was to throw the book away. If I was to keep the book, or if I had not felt convicted, who knows where that book might have led me?

Sometimes the Lord does it to let us appreciate Him all that much more. To let us go to the vomit of the world, and then to come back to the nice roast beef of Him. To let us get a little dirty to appreciate a wonderful shower.

[blessed]

We are all in the Potters hand, which means in the processing of forming we get out of shape even break or chip at times, but then there is the reassurance that We are in the Potters hand so he'll just break it up and start molding over again. The crushing process might be a little hard but its just begining of starting over again

Lord Bless u all

[All4Jesus]

I agree with you bro Joe. God knows how many times I fail Him. I fail Him everyday but I always make sure with his grace I get it right before the next day starts. God always leads me back. I feel a big change in my life- 2moro I have to go to a big family party and i'm not happy but I know one thing God has covered me with His holy blood. I used to love getting that 'hot' look with a cool style. But since then God has worked wonders in my life that I don't care what the youth thinks is 'cool'. As long as i have got my long sensible skirt, a good godly top and a long coat with long hair that's all I need. God knows what terrible things happen at 'godly' parties with the youth.

Last time I went to a big party I set on a chair reading the spoken word Three Types Of Believers with Gods and the prophets picture in my bag. All I need and want right now is God. I know i'm not the only girl who lives for only God. I just thank God for making me feel this way at 15 and he led me here to this very godly best ever forum to be here talking about God with my brothers and sisters. You don't know how much I appreciate and love you all. God bless you all. Thank you so much God. I love you sooooooo... much.

[Babyruth]

I'm thankful for your heart too all4jesus! God bless you!

[NeedGod]

i was wondering about that. usually when i sin, i feel so far from God. thank you joe.

[JoeC]

I just thought of an anology to illustrate my original post.

Many times people kick themselves because they made a mistake and while sinning enjoyed the sin. They do this because they are thinking that a true Holy Ghost filled Christian they could not possibly enjoy sin.

Now, say I am a health nut (and I am). I don't desire to eat pizza - it's unhealthy. On occasion, however, I will eat it. I enjoy it while I am eating it. But afterward I regret eating the pizza and try not to do it again (within reason ;))

Just because I partook of the pizza doesn't mean that I am no longer a health nut. The fact that I enjoyed the pizza is no proof as to whether I'm a health nut or not. It's within my person to enjoy high sodium, high fat, greasy foods.

However, I will say that I have gotten to the point in the past where I couldn't stomach pizza because my system was so clean that the grease would make me slightly ill. At both points in my life I was a health nut, but there was a time where I was a health but with a clean system and thus couldn't enjoy the junky foods.

See what I'm getting at? What you eat doesn't neccessarily prove what you are. Just because you enjoy sin doesn't mean you are a Sinner. You might just need to get used to a different diet.

[BroTrevor]

I understand where you are going...

I think the last part of Romans 7 really illustrates this for us as well.

I am very careful about it also... The Lord has really been dealing with me on this topic lately.

We need to be certain it is the Holy Spirit we have and NOT the new spirit.

I understand where you were going with...

If I have the Holy Ghost, really have it, then shouldn't my desires be different than this? Holy Ghost filled Christians are supposed to no longer have the desire for the world. So then, do I really have the Holy Ghost?

Intimidating question, isn't it? Sounds legitimate, doesn't it? But I think it's a sleight of hand trick by our adversary.

But this question might also be one to get you to become so desperate that God would take a particular thing from you.

Make no mistake, we WANT to be perfect. We have a perfect SINLESS NATURE on the inside if we have the Holy Ghost. This should be something we're striving for to let God have His way.

I would like to bring up a point tho...there are many things we do, day in and day out that are not right.

For instance... let's just take a popular TV show such as Smallville.

There are many young people I know that watch this show with regularity... If you don't like TV, fine...they get the season on DVD.

Now, What I don't get is those that say they have the Holy Ghost, and aren't at least STRUGGLING with this. They just allow this into their lives without any problem at all thinking that it is ok.

So, are they just asleep? Do they not have the Holy Ghost?

I don't understand NOT struggling against sin. Not fighting against it. I don't understand how one can say "I desire Jesus Christ" but continually and without reservation will watch this type of thing without any hint of feeling it is not ok.

I don't believe this is a picture of the Holy Spirit.

But, I'm just kinda rambling right now... something I've been thinking on lately tho. This is a good topic. I haven't fully fleshed this out in my own mind, with supporting scriptures, quotes and types yet.

I believe we do need to make our calling and election sure. Even to the point of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Yet, I stand, like Job, I know I have met the requirement.


P.S. Every analogy with Pizza is great.

[redeemed]

ya'll just answered a question that i have been pondering. Thank you!

[BroTrevor]

Hey, then why am I still confused??

<grin>

[JoeC]

I don't understand NOT struggling against sin. Not fighting against it. I don't understand how one can say "I desire Jesus Christ" but continually and without reservation will watch this type of thing without any hint of feeling it is not ok.

This is a really good question too bring up. Can someone have the Holy Ghost and still let their guard down to the extent that sin is just coming in like a flood?

What's the proof of the Holy Spirit? We know that there's not one single thing that concretely proves that one is sealed... but by their works ye shall know them. These people who unreservedly allow sin in, what are the other fruits in their life? Therein I believe we would find some insight to our answer.

[collegegirl]

I do believe that at points you do allow some sin in your life without fully realizing the extent of the damage until later. At first, you sneak a bite, and then you find that it is sooo good that you keep eating it, until you realize how much you have really eaten, and then, shortly afterwards, you get the pain and the reminder of how much you ate, and you then question yourself if you will ever eat of it again. Sometimes, we don't learn from our mistakes, and do it again and again, before someday realizing the consequences of our actions, or some may realize before they get too full that they shouldn't, thus being able to stop some of the damages.

I really liked what Joe said:

However, I will say that I have gotten to the point in the past where I couldn't stomach pizza because my system was so clean that the grease would make me slightly ill. At both points in my life I was a health nut, but there was a time where I was a health but with a clean system and thus couldn't enjoy the junky foods.

See what I'm getting at? What you eat doesn't neccessarily prove what you are. Just because you enjoy sin doesn't mean you are a Sinner. You might just need to get used to a different diet.

Thanks Joe, I will be working on my spiritual diet.

[JoeC]

I do believe that at points you do allow some sin in your life without fully realizing the extent of the damage until later.
As a personal testimony, I'll confess that there have been those points in my life where I just gorged myself on the Devil's platter - after I believe I recieved the Holy Ghost! And I know I'm not the only one. Dooes that mean that we don't really have the Holy Ghost. Not neccessarily - but it does mean that we are notallowing Holy Ghost to work in our lives. We're keeping rooms of our temple locked with only ourselves holding the key, saying "God, you can't go there."

Now I don't want people who are really wondering if they have the Holy Ghost or not to take my pizza analogy and say "Well, everyhing's hunky-dorry then." NOT SO! If you are doubting your experience, pray without ceasing (have a prayerful spirit at all times and talk to God as much as you can) until you know for sure.

You see, Satan's goal is to make those who have the Holy Ghost doubt it, and those that haven't got It to believe they do. My intent in posting the pizza analogy was not for a back door of escape to those who are wondering, but an encouragement. If you are wondering, you still need to find out for yourself!

[Siggi25]

I totally agree with you. A minister said that when we do things we shouldn't do, we know right away that we shouldn't have done them, and we feel terrible for doing them. We immediately want to ask for forgiveness, without having to be reminded. We aren't like children who, when they get caught stealing cookies, then feel sorry, after they've been caught. Instead, there's something inside of us that lets us know right away that it was wrong and we need to make it right.
So many times I get upset, and know while I'm upset that it's wrong and I shouldn't yell or say what I'm saying (not swearing, just with a temper), and after I do it, I immediately talk to God about it. I think it's a test that God continually gives us until we get it right. As a Christian, we do not completely fail. We take the test that God sees fit for us, and we may fail that time, but God just throws it away and gives it to us again and again until we get it right because with God, we can't fail. Of course, we cannot willingly do wrong and always expect God to forgive us, it's our approach and knowing that we really didn't want to do wrong, we just gave into it because we are human and that part of our character hasn't developed all the way yet.
Hope this makes sense.

My thought´s expressed perfectly, and By this we know that God is dealing with us and that he hasn´t abandond us, if we didn´t get the feeling that we were doing thing´s that we should not do. Then we should really be worried.

[NeedGod]

oh my, i reread this thread after a long time and i must say God sent me here again to remind me that He will always pick me up when i fall. oh yeah!
:yay:
Jesus loves me this i know
:yay:
ok, am back to normal again....uuuh, no, just one more shout
:yay:
ok, there.
i wanted to tell you something that just came on my mind. correct me if i am wrong. falling at times doesnt mean we lack the Holy Ghost. look at Peter, after they had been baptized by the Holy Ghost, he still erred when it came to things like siding with jews etc. and Paul had to correct him.
we fall, but the way to win the war if to just keep standing and fighting.
the prophet himself erred often. but you know what, if we stand and keep on fighting, we will win the battle. remember, the War was already won.
hallelujah!
ok, now, one last shout
:yay:
there!
God Bless you all!

[redeemed_lizzi]

This is soo interesting because it has been on my mind for a while. The question as to whether a Holy Spirit filled christian would carry on and slip and sin and even to enjoy it. Well this is my own personal testimony as to what God has shown me about this....

About 2 years ago I wnt to live in Germany as part of my University course. I loved the country and the people and the freedom. Don't get me wrong I love my parents and I know they do what is best for me but as the eldest I think they find it hard to let go a bit (but I don't blame them, coz if I was my child, I would do the same thing). Anyhoo, in Germany I had a great circle of friends and we did lots together. Mostly it was eating and going sight seeing but occasionally we would go out to bars and clubs. Now I had a lot of fun the first time I went out. I think it was the novelty of doing something that I had only heard about. I knew what I was doing was totally wrong, but curiosity and stubborness carried me away. Very soon I realised that these kind of places were not where I wanted to be. I had a particularly nasty episode where I couldn't breath because of the amount of smoke that was in a club. Anyway, one Monday I was pondering my situation. I hadn't been out with my friends for ages and to be quite honest I really had no desire to go out at all. I figured out the reason I had been going out the past couple of months was because I was too cowardly to tell my friends the extent of what I believed as a christian and I thought they would look at me as a hypocrite (which I was really). So anyway, I was pondering about the state of my spiritual life and thinking about what I had to stop doing before God would deal with me properly, and what was befitting a christain etc etc. I then really started to think about why I went out with my friends if I claimed I had no desire for music or dancing. I mean did I really enjoy tuning in and listening to that kind of music? I figured out the answer was that even though I previously did have that desire I now had NO desire what so ever to listen to worldly music. Praise God, He had taken it completely away from me. Nothing within me actually wanted to go out there and listen to it. BUT the next question was if i had no desire, why was it that when music was played in such places I would enjoy it. Outside of those places I had no desire to listen to such music. I figured out (or rather God showed me) that I always put myself in situations where I was faced with listening to that music.That allowed that my flesh man that does enjoy those kinds of things, the avenue to revel in such stupidity. I didn't have to say yes when my friends asked me out. But out of cowardice of professing my faith to my friends, I put myself in situations where I would come face to face with former demons.

I have since had my Holy Ghost experience and I still make mistakes, as a human being is prone to do. Sometimes I enjoy the mistakes I make and sometimes I am repenting while in the midst of doing my mistake.
I suppose in a nut shell what I am trying to say is that if you have the Holy Spirit you will make mistakes, and, because you make mistakes in the flesh you will maybe, sometimes enjoy those mistakes. But that doesn't make you any less Holy Ghost filled or any less of a christian. Paul talked extensively of this in Romans especailly Romans 7. Verse 25 of chap 7 was very poignant for me:

I thank God- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The whole book of Romans put into context what I had learned through my experience. I learned that just saying that "oh I'm in the flesh so the flesh will naturally sin" was nonsense and spiritually degrading, and that God had made a way for all my problems, desires and burdens. I also learned that if I made a mistake and pehaps i enjoyed it in that instant, did not mean that I was the spawn of satan and going to hell. God showed me that He had been working on me but that I kept putting myself in situations where my flesh would dominate. I took myself out of those situations by God's grace and am continuing to live in His love and mercy.
God bless u Joe for this post and all of you for your responses :) :handshake