Being 'In the Message'

[redeemed_lizzi]

Now I'm going to try and get my wording right so that I don't write anything contrary or sacreligious. I've been hearing and reading quite alot of the words 'in The Message'. 'Do you believe The Message?', 'How long have you been in The Message?', 'When did you realise for yourself that The Message is the true faith?', 'I am a Message believer' etc, etc, etc. I know as human beings we use language to communicate and we need to be able to define what are and what we believe in. But when did the restoration of the Word become, 'The Message', like the original christians became 'Roman Catholics', or the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the Pentecostal age become 'I'm a Pentecostal'. It's almost become a phrase that has lost it's meaning. I'm not sure if I've phrased this correctly, but this is a forum so I welcome the questions. Does anybody else feel the same way?

[God'schild]

interesting thread!!!

[AndrewMichael]

I can sincerely say I have been "in the Message" since I was 16... but I was 19 when I was in Christ. The two are completely different and to know HIM is life, not another creed.

I have noticed how many people have changed "Are you in Christ?" to "Are you in the Message?" but I do see a lot of preachers hitting on that. Time to get to the basics and make this rapture.

And I purpose this question, has anyone else noticed how much "Message People" isn't even a good estimate for the Bride? The end is coming sooner than we think.

[AlanaH]

Before I was really "in" the Message, I was taught to say, "I was/have been born into a Message believing family" because I wasn't truly "in" the Message until the age of 7.
I didn't feel right saying that I was "in" before that because it wasn't real to me yet, and I couldn't go on my parents experience. "God has no grandchildren..."
But that only works for people who have born into it, AndrewMichael's phrase is good for people who were not born into it.
So there my 0.02.....

[JoeC]

I'm a Christian.

IMHO, we get so bogged down with lingo and cliches that it hampers our ability to witness. Take a look from their point of view and you can see how we could easily appear "cultish."

Also, the entire "in the Message" phraseology seems to lead to a denominational spirit. Just my $0.02

[AlanaH]

It soooo does, and very good point to mention it. We definitely overuse that phrase and throw it around...and that shouldn't happen...God help us all!

Also though, Catholics and all other denominations call themselves Christians too.

[joris]

I have noticed how many people have changed "Are you in Christ?" to "Are you in the Message?"I think that qualifies as "denomination" :(
Time to get to the basics and make this rapture.what does that mean?

again, makes me long to receive that cd of people sharing (quite young people some of them), also about God saying no to rules just to be rules just to "feel" you're in His will -- as soon as you start trying to filter out rules out of bible without understanding real background, His meaning there, you risc actually stepping out of His will

The end is coming sooner than we think.sooner? I take that means it's today, right?

Also though, Catholics and all other denominations call themselves Christians too.I'm afraid just assuming there are no Christians there is not fair either; weird as it may seem, there may be true Christians there (though maybe blinded or misguided, or just trying to find their way to get further) - this is really difficult - but looking down on people, that sure is not His way

[Lily_Grace]

I'm a Christian.

IMHO, we get so bogged down with lingo and cliches that it hampers our ability to witness. Take a look from their point of view and you can see how we could easily appear "cultish."

Also, the entire "in the Message" phraseology seems to lead to a denominational spirit. Just my $0.02

Yeah i totally agree on the fact that "phraseology seems to lead to a denominational spirit". The phrase is thrown about quite alot. I remember when somebody first asked me "Are you in the message?" and i said " Which one? Bro Branham preached so many." (Remember i was young at the time:dft010: ). So through time it's kinda labelled people, like Pentecostals, Baptists etc. And some people hide behind it and make it their comfort zone.
That's my £0.02 :D

P.S JoeC what does IMHO mean?

[joris]

P.S JoeC what does IMHO mean?something like "in my honest opinion" or "in my humble opinion"

[Jezz]

Most people use that phrase because its convenient I guess, quicker than asking "Do you believe the message that Brother Branham brought?". Not that its neccesarily a good reason but their intention isn't to create a denomination (which I would say has happened anyway). In my opinion once you close your mind on the Word and you can't accept anything more then you've as good as denominated. How will you receive the revelation of the Rapture if you believe you already have everything?

I don't know that I would call people in denomination Christians, they don't know who Christ is so how can they be Christians? Thats not to say that they won't receive a true revelation in the future and be saved. You can only judge others by the Word and nothing else (not declare judgement on them). Brother Branham called it the Word test.

[FreeAtLast]

I believe there are true christians in this world today that are not "in the message".

Who are we to say that they are not christians?

I think I said this before somewhere on here:
I believe there are ppl in this world today who are saved and don´t know this message (yet).

[FreeAtLast]

In case somebody wants some quote on this:

QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.3_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0830M
But when it comes to individuals, as men and women, there's genuine Christians in all them denominations: Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutherans, and so forth. But I'm talking about the systems that these people are in, not never the individual, but the system that these people has been caught into in their denomination.The... Clearly understand that now (See?), that I--I think the people... If they're Roman Catholic, Jehovah Witness, Orthodox Jew, whatever they are, that doesn't matter to me; but they are individuals to which Christ died to save.
QUESTIONS.AND.ANSWERS.3_ JEFF.IN COD SUNDAY_ 64-0830M
1071-40 And now, I... And agreeing with their systems that they're in... I believe there's just as many Christians out there in the Baptist, as there is in the Methodists, or the Presbyterians, or whatevermore. They're Christians, real believers. And right out in the Roman Catholic church there's genuine people in there that's real men and women that love the Lord. And they don't join that church to be wrong; they join that to be right. But it's a system in there that directs their mind the wrong way. And if ever comes to a time that I'd make a denomination, I have deceived you and have brought you into a system; far be it from me. And may God keep me in my right mind to direct you to Jesus Christ, the Word. Stay with That. See?

[JoeC]

Thanks for the quote, FreeAtLast. Remember folks, there are people who are following the Lord in all they know. Some may end up as foolish virgins, but they're still virgins.

[BroTrevor]

I remember when somebody first asked me "Are you in the message?" and i said " Which one? Bro Branham preached so many."

What a great reply!!


*BroTrevor looks around the thread....

looks good...carry on!

[joris]

Most people use that phrase because its convenient I guess, quicker than asking "Do you believe the message that Brother Branham brought?".personally I don't think I could even answer such question, for that I'd have to have real in-depth knowledge of every word Branham preached; now that's not the greatest answer either
I think... uhm; well now and then, some days I feel let me try reading; other days it's more like forget it, I'm not finding answers -- most days I feel, I really long answers; or to re-phrase -- I long for real answers; answers in such a way that they don't just give me theology/theory/whatever, but actually enable me to experience that, like, yeah, just in practice; answers that show in a simple clear way this is wrong - and give a not-impossible solution to deal with it -- or show that nothing is wrong, relax, it'll be dealt with just not right now -- anyway it's not my fault;
something like that; show me such preachings and - I might find I get more understanding of how you see Branham; to me... I didn't find those strong, real, answers, yet

(oh some maybe, but not directly from Branham I guess)

[redeemed_lizzi]

It's amazing how sometimes we as human beings get caught up in things such as phraseology and how sometimes it can be used to persecute someone. Bro Ron Peterson was preaching at the Belgium youth camp earlier this year and he said that sometimes people like to hide behind what they call 'the message' and that they only do things because that's what you're meant to do in 'the message'. For example wearing long skirts because that's what you're meant to because you believe 'the message'. If you haven't had a personal experience with God and don't know Him for yourself, then you're just doing it for doing it's sake. Now I'm NOT condoning anyone to go wear what they want and say "until God shows me different then this is the way I'm gonna be".But you HAVE to have a personal experience with Him. I'm finding out for myself how much I hid behind that phrase and I was kinda self-righteous in my thinking when it came to certain things. God has a way of taking away the walls of man made christianity and showing us exactly what we are and how much we really need Him. I like what you said about being 'in Christ' AndrewMichael. After all isn't that who Bro Branham came to restore?

[AndrewMichael]

personally I don't think I could even answer such question, for that I'd have to have real in-depth knowledge of every word Branham preached;

You have to have the revelation of what God really did in our age. Our faith cannot rest in the prophet, it rests in the God who sent the prophet. It is hard to deny that Brother Branham was a vindicated prophet, because HE WAS. But, Jesus used this Message (as we have dubbed it), to bring us back to the fulness again. Every detail of knowledge is not what we need. We need revelation from God more than anything else (and I'm sure many of you know this quote).

Knowledge is different than revelation and we believe the prophet because God vindicated him, not because of our intellectual scorecard.

[joris]

We need revelation from God more than anything elseright;
sad some people keep saying God won't speak but to others, like prophets, but not to me - seems to me that's missing the whole point of revelation
though some texts they quote seem to be indicating that; now instead of accepting God won't reveal I must conclude I don't see the true meanings of such texts

[AndrewMichael]

right;
sad some people keep saying God won't speak but to others, like prophets, but not to me - seems to me that's missing the whole point of revelation
though some texts they quote seem to be indicating that; now instead of accepting God won't reveal I must conclude I don't see the true meanings of such texts

I have heard pretty much the updated "The days of miracles is past," such as "You can't have visions, you can't see those things, only brother Branham could." God put the gifts until the end, we need them the whole way through. I know a prophet sees multiple visions, but I do know of believers who have still seen them.

I will ask Joris that you explain that last sentence, I got confused. I believe firmly that God speaks to every single one of His children. We are no greater than a drunk that got saved an hour ago, and God loves His children and is here to guide us and lead us. Revelation comes from Him and is revealed to the elected, and we must seek higher revelation all the time.

I will testify that I recently had a revelation on Love, the truth, why it is the capstone, why it is the fulness of Christ, because Almighty God the alpha and omega, all in all, can be expressed in a four letter word, Love. This was revealed to me by God, I didn't just think it up. I have read the text on love all the time, but once God revealed it, I now can act and live my Christian walk at a higher level than I ever have before.

[joris]

:embarrassed: I have at least memories of what one text - it's probably amos3:7 which I found in some text logs, but I'm not very familiar with the whole book of amos
anyway -- along the lines of "God says there He'll reveal to the prophets; now... as you are not a prophet, try to borrow the revelation of the prophet"
then to me it seems, it doesn't say God will only reveal to them so NO I won't "borrow" their revelation; there's no such thing as "borrowing revelation" anyway

[AndrewMichael]

:embarrassed: I have at least memories of what one text - it's probably amos3:7 which I found in some text logs, but I'm not very familiar with the whole book of amos
anyway -- along the lines of "God says there He'll reveal to the prophets; now... as you are not a prophet, try to borrow the revelation of the prophet"
then to me it seems, it doesn't say God will only reveal to them so NO I won't "borrow" their revelation; there's no such thing as "borrowing revelation" anyway

That's a really good point! I like that Joris!

[BroTrevor]

So, we have prophets and preachers for no reason then.

I have not borrowed my revelation from Bro Branham.

But God sent that revelation through Bro Branham. He also gave revelation to us in a Word form in the Bible.

If you truly don't want to "borrow any revelation" then stop reading the Bible too, because you wouldn't want to borrow revelation from any of the writers of the Holy Bible, after all.

Ludicrous!! You seem to want God to reveal things to you in only one way. Can we tell God how we want our revelation?

[AlanaH]

Thank you for that post, BroTrevor...
I wanted to say the same thing, but really didn't know how, so you just expressed my feelings completely!

[marichino_freedom]

i agree....revelation comes in many different ways. and if God wants us to know something: HE WILL LET US KNOW!!!!!

[AndrewMichael]

Well, let me reiterate what my point was.

I know that Brother Branham was sent to bring the revealed Word, but if I do not have the SAME revelation, it is worthless to me. We need to have the revelation personally, and God uses different facilities to bring these revelations to us (prophets, preachers, tapes, even music, etc). But, our focus must remain on the God who sent them to us, not the facility that He used to bring it to us. Hopefully that clears up my point...

[BroTrevor]

I'm with you Andrew brutha...

We must have it revealed PERSONALLY. But in getting the personal revelation, we do not plug our ears to what God is trying to reveal to us THROUGH His messenger and other gifts.


EPHESIANS 4:16
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.



155-2 SMYRNAEAN.CHURCH.AGE - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.4
The Seven Ages as set forth in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 take in the whole span of the Fullness of the Gentiles, or the whole time in which God is dealing with the Gentiles unto salvation. In every single age, bar none, it says the very same thing in opening and closing the message to each age. "Unto the messenger of (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea) write; These things saith He, etc., etc. "... He that hath an ear, let him (singular) hear what the Spirit saith to the churches." Notice here that Jesus (by the Spirit) in EVERY age addresses Himself to ONLY ONE person relative to the Word for that age. Only ONE messenger for each age receives what the Spirit has to say to that age, and that ONE MESSENGER is the messenger to the true church. He speaks for God by revelation to the "churches", both true and false. The message is then broadcast to all. But though it is broadcast for all who come within range of the message, that message is received individually by only a certain qualified group in a certain way. Each individual of that group is one who has the ability to hear what the Spirit is saying by way of the messenger. Those who hear are not getting their own private revelation, nor is a group getting their collective revelation, BUT EACH PERSON IS HEARING AND RECEIVING WHAT THE MESSENGER HAS ALREADY RECEIVED FROM GOD.



So you see, while God speaks His Word for the day by way of the messenger, "each person is hearing and recieving"

It's still an individual, personal revelation.

[jtucker]

I wouldn't know how to put it any better!!!

I just thank God he is willing to give me the personal revelation!!!

that he would love me enough to show himself to me and make me able to recieve his words, that i am of his flock and he is my sheperd

[joris]

let's say, I'd wish Branham would backup (by bible) some claims better; by not doing so, he only leaves me with a lot of frustration and questions, with the uneasiness of not understanding how he jumped to some conclusions*, and; oh well if his only goal was to get me praying he's good at that but...

*somehow he starts of as if he's explaining; in that, it's frustrating not to be able to follow what he's saying

[blessed]

Just pray to God for understanding and Revelation Joris, it will come.

[FreeAtLast]

Joris are you listening to Bro. Branham or are you reading one of the sermons?

At times it makes such a big difference to actually hear it than rather just reading it. It honestly does.

[joris]

more often I'm reading - I guess reading gives more time to think of what is said and stuff - to look words up too if I don't fully understand; stuff like that;
there's also some difficulties with fear -- like being in one house with these parents, it's quite difficult to me

[FreeAtLast]

oh I see.
so you don´t have a lil privacy in your room where you can do whatever you want?
I mean you wouldn´t need to turn the volume like REAL high. you know I mean?

I am seriously praying for you and your brother too. Yesterday church was so good! I prayed for you there. I believe Jesus will make a way for you in everything!

[Jezz]

Personally I love to read Brother Branham books, there is advantages to both definately and it comes back to what you enjoy the most of course. I like to read because I can read something that he said and read it over and over and over again so it really sinks in.

If you are having trouble with privacy while listening then headphones perhaps?

[AndrewMichael]

I guess I have found little to none in the tapes that Brother Branham doesn't back up all his claims with dozens of Scriptures. And as I stated before, my faith is in the Word he preached, not just in him. Most of the Message people's problem is how much we rely on our intellect to the Message and not just on our faith in God. I don't understand a lot of the Bible, such as why did Isaiah preach naked??, but... it is His Word and since He has never failed, I can rest in it no matter what I think.

Same with the tapes. I can see where what Brother Branham is saying is in the Bible and it gives me that faith to rest in what he is telling me on the tapes, and things that I don't understand, I really don't get too worked up about. God gives us the revelation we NEED, not necessarily what we want or feel we need. He is faithful, but if you don't believe that 100%, then studying won't help. You have to know the PERSON of Christ, not a theology.

[AndrewMichael]

Faith is a gift of God... you have to ask for it, it can't be earned...

[AlanaH]

Exactly, and there comes a time when you just get dead serious with God, and then He will reveal things to you. At least, that's the way it happened with me.

[redeemed_lizzi]

I guess I have found little to none in the tapes that Brother Branham doesn't back up all his claims with dozens of Scriptures. And as I stated before, my faith is in the Word he preached, not just in him. Most of the Message people's problem is how much we rely on our intellect to the Message and not just on our faith in God. I don't understand a lot of the Bible, such as why did Isaiah preach naked??, but... it is His Word and since He has never failed, I can rest in it no matter what I think.

Same with the tapes. I can see where what Brother Branham is saying is in the Bible and it gives me that faith to rest in what he is telling me on the tapes, and things that I don't understand, I really don't get too worked up about. God gives us the revelation we NEED, not necessarily what we want or feel we need. He is faithful, but if you don't believe that 100%, then studying won't help. You have to know the PERSON of Christ, not a theology.

Amen, that is soo true. If you know Christ then everything else will fall into place. You have to remember that it wasn't you who went around searching for Him, it was He who called you. And if He has called you then He's not about to leave you hanging. God works all things out to the good of His people. Hang on to His word, because that is the ONLY thing that is certain in this life. I'll keep you in my prayers.

[MarieLenora]

I don't know if I can say this the way I want to, but...

It's more important for me that the Message be inside of me, than for me to be "in the Message". Or better--the life of the Message dwelling inside of me.

Without that life, I am nothing.

[azurity]

Well said, Marie!! Thanks so much for bringing this thread up again. I found it on one of those bored days at work, and wanted to post my 2c, but wasn't sure how to say it. I think this thread was more active a few months ago, and I pretty much didn't have anything to say on it at the time.

I used to think that being in the Message was more important than being a Christian. I thought that if people weren't quoting the Message, then they were pretty much as bad as the denominations out there. I considered it more important to be identified with the Message than the Bible, because the Bride believes the Message, right?

I know most of you aren't going to agree with that, and I don't see it that way myself anymore. I don't want to get to preaching, but I'd like to say, praise God for the Holy Spirit that opens our eyes to these things.

Brother Branham never expected us to form a cult around what he taught. He simply sort to show us Jesus Christ.

TOKEN_ JEFF.IN V-2 N-19 SUNDAY_ 63-0901M
230 Don't just come this far, say, "I believe the Message." You obey the messenger. Come into Christ! You say, "Well, I believe every Word said, Brother Branham." That's good, but that's just--that's just being able to read.
231 Take the Message, take It into your heart, that you must have the Token, the very Life that was in Christ be in you. "When I see That, I will pass over you."

Now, I can humbly say, I would rather be in Christ than "in the Message." By His grace, I want to be found in Him on that day.

As Marie said, without that Life, I am nothing.

(PS. I aren't saying that I think it's wrong to believe the Message, or be "in the Message." I believe it with all that I am, and it is Jesus Christ that makes it live.)

[joris]

Now, I can humbly say, I would rather be in Christ than "in the Message." By His grace, I want to be found in Him on that day.would it be rude to say, "glad you came to believe"? :y10:
oh... but I really am, glad, that you came to believe :surrender:ok:

[Only One Life, Live 4 GOD]

I prefer to say I'm a christian but when you say that people straght away think denomination and well I dont want to be tarred with that brush I am a Beiliver I beiliver in the Lord Jesus Christ and thats the way that I identify myself now a beiliver that says it all not a in the message though I am not a christian though I am but A Beiliver in our Lord and the message of these last days

[joris]

I prefer to say I'm a christian but when you say that people straght away think denomination and well I dont want to be tarred with that brush I am a Beiliver I beiliver in the Lord Jesus Christ and thats the way that I identify myself now a beiliver that says it all not a in the message though I am not a christian though I am but A Beiliver in our Lord and the message of these last days
heh, seems many worldly people have no clue about what a christian is; a while ago I meantioned I was christian (which had to be said for practical reasons ;)) and the person responded by often asking whether "this" or "that" wasn't allowed by church... (all completely wrong assumptions) they have no clue, they think it's just laws; they're missing the whole point, you see
and I know before I became christian... oh well I remember at some point I was thinking along those lines, thinking, I couldn't be sinless, no way; so bad luck for them who try to push me into that -- again, well I had no clue what being christian is about

(:( and then here there's again so much law as to remind me to say, I knew back then I wasn't able, I haven't forgotten either; but Jesus hasn't forgotten I believe He will take every guilt away for whatever I do wrong, and through my conscience He'll let me know when to ask for forgiveness)

[marichino_freedom]

i just say "christian" and leave it at that. if they ask questions, then i tell them. but i dont go into a big huge detailed speech right off the bat.

i'm still pretty new in it myself, and i'm still learning every day. three years isnt a long time. but we all are learning every day, arent we.

[SisTrev]

ya i agree...just saying your a christian is pretty good. Of course i've had people asked if i was pentacostal a lot. SO i jsut say, "No...just a nondenominational christian." THen some will as what church i go to...And if it leads to more from there, then i tell them...otherwise i let it go.

[marichino_freedom]

yep.....thats how it goes. and usually people leave it alone after the church thing, but some are just super inquisitive

[joris]

ya i agree...just saying your a christian is pretty good. Of course i've had people asked if i was pentacostal a lot. SO i jsut say, "No...just a nondenominational christian." THen some will as what church i go to...And if it leads to more from there, then i tell them...otherwise i let it go.but you're in the message denomination :y10:
now what made me say something like that?:misli:

[BroTrevor]

but you're in the message denomination :y10:
now what made me say something like that?:misli:

actually, there is quite a difference between being led of the Holy Spirit and God's Word, and a council of a bunch of men writing out rules on how to believe.

[marichino_freedom]

denomination = government-like set up, or heirarchy.

(correct me if i am wrong)

[joris]

denomination = government-like set up, or heirarchy.

(correct me if i am wrong)I think that's wrong
but then, I came to the conclusion I'm seeing it in a somewhat different way; to me denomination could be - just walls, just seperation, just... that; Bro Trevor indicated in his view (and probably that of others here), it seems really to be about "blindness"
but then again, maybe we should stop calling brothers and sisters denominational if you're claim by that is that they are blind - instead pray or so, or claim Gods promises over their (and your own) lives... and such

[BroTrevor]

actually I believe Marachino is right in the traditional sense.

A denomination is an organanized method of religion.

Of course, there are many that I would say are denominated, and not necessarily "in a denomination" in the sense Joris is speaking of.

In the "seperation in churches" thread, the discussion led to a brother Jezz posting a thought "Bride doesn't persecute anybody", and that's just exactly what it should be.

We are not to be so denominalized that we cannot accept fellowship with another on the basis they don't believe anything like us. If they draw us out of the circle, we're supposed to draw a bigger one around them.

[SisTrev]

well said...

[joris]

We are not to be so denominalized that we cannot accept fellowship with another on the basis they don't believe anything like us. If they draw us out of the circle, we're supposed to draw a bigger one around them."even" if they don't see things exactly like you do, like, you make extreme strong claims (based in Branham's interpreting some scripture) about cloths, woman, and a few more things... say there's a church and women... they don't see this thing of trousers like you do, well, how are you responding?

(me I find not all of that teaching of Branham is currently being followed in the church I go to, though I'd have to add that the whole name Branham isn't that known around here)

[Angelo]

As long as the name Lord is lifted and not another Bro.

We can't force anybody on believing what we believe and what the Bible teaches. The only people that will be able to follow the teachings of the Bible are them that have the Spirit of God dwell in them. the Spirit of truth will teach you into all truth. So it's not them doing it but God working through them, so it's no other men's glory but Him that supplieth. One has to surrender "hisself" first before God can work through them.

[Jezz]

Amen to that Angelo

Although some people do take it too far with the "Holy Spirit will teach you all truth" idea. Revelation still cometh by hearing the Word of God.

[MarieLenora]

CHRISTIANITY.VERSUS.IDOLATRY_ JEFF.IN V-8 N-2 SUNDAY_ 61-1217
207 God, we realize that the badge of authority is not a name of a denomination, but it's the power, the power of the resurrection of Christ in each individual life. God, may this people here this morning strive to enter in that. And if this tape should ever get out into the country where people are at, Lord, let them know that it wasn't said to be for malice, 'cause I'd be wrong myself; but that the Church might be triumphant and realize its place. That they'd see where all these idols... Where the Catholic church come out plain and made it an idol, the Protestants makes it an organization, and just as bad, denying the Word, "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." O God, how true Your Word is, every Word.

[azurity]

Wow... amen!

Thanks for posting that Marie!

"the power of the resurrection of Christ in each individual life."

I love that!

That could go in the "seperation in churches" thread, too.