Predestination

[Jezz]

Are we predestinated because he foreknew us?
Or did he foreknow us because we are predestinated?

[already bought]

hummmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................
is it not the same thing??

[God'schild]

Are we predestinated because he foreknew us?
Or did he foreknow us because we are predestinated?

Where is that scripture that says he foreknew us??? i wish i could give you the scripture.....
I think we're predestinated because he foreknew us...
I think Bro:Trev would be a help in this one....

[Jezz]

The difference as I see it is this:

Foreknowledge because of predestination - God has predestinated you to be saved, doesn't matter what you do in your life you are saved. Unless of course you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which if you were predestinated you wouldnt do so thats a moot point.

Predestinated because of foreknowledge - God foreknew what we would do in our lives, he wether we'd accept the truth or not, wether we'd believe the true revealed Word for this hour. He knows we will make the right decision. So we are predestinated by his foreknowledge. At least thats my understanding. I've never really understood this point of view myself so perhaps someone else can explain it better.

[EllyMae]

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this. But, I believe that we are predestinated because He foreknew us. God is the one who predestinated us into the kingdom of Heaven. It would seem kind of backwards if He foreknew us because we are predestinated...

Does that make sense?

While I was looking up a scripture for something that I wrote (which I'm going to share later on) I came across this scripture, which goes along with this.

1 Peter 1:2- "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

"Elect according to the foreknowledge..."

So, He must have foreknew us first.

[God'schild]

i forget what scripture it is but the bible
says we're predesinated through foreknowloge.....
EllyMae can you find the scripture for that please... i will look as well....

[EllyMae]

Look at this scripture:

Romans 8:29- "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

It doesn't say... "For whom he did predestinated, he also foreknew..."

[BroTrevor]

God knew the end from the beginning...


SO He knew how you'd choose...

If you were created (predestinated as you say) for the purpose of following Him...and thereby God knew you...then how are you different from an angel?

It's all about Love man!

God wanted us to CHOOSE Him. He didn't want robots... Do you want to go to Radio Shack and pick up all the parts necessary to make an android, and program it to love you? (a loose analogy)

Or would you rather a nice young lady catch your eye one day, and over all the other guys in the world, choose to love you and you and you only. Which loves you more? The android, or the nice young lady?

Natural types the spiritual here bro. If you would then desire that kind of love, how much do you think God would. After all, He wants us to be His BRIDE!! And over all the other "guys" (world) choose Him.

So to say that you were predestinated, and thereby God foreknew you, is to cheapen the love of God in my mind.

It's all about Love... oh yeah.

[EllyMae]

Amen Bro Trevor, very well said :)

[God'schild]

Amen!!!!!

(message to short :012: someone needs to fix that)

[already bought]

God knew the end from the beginning...


SO He knew how you'd choose...

If you were created (predestinated as you say) for the purpose of following Him...and thereby God knew you...then how are you different from an angel?

It's all about Love man!

God wanted us to CHOOSE Him. He didn't want robots... Do you want to go to Radio Shack and pick up all the parts necessary to make an android, and program it to love you? (a loose analogy)

Or would you rather a nice young lady catch your eye one day, and over all the other guys in the world, choose to love you and you and you only. Which loves you more? The android, or the nice young lady?

Natural types the spiritual here bro. If you would then desire that kind of love, how much do you think God would. After all, He wants us to be His BRIDE!! And over all the other "guys" (world) choose Him.

So to say that you were predestinated, and thereby God foreknew you, is to cheapen the love of God in my mind.

It's all about Love... oh yeah.

Can you please explain that a little plainer. I really like what you said but I don't completly understand.

[BroTrevor]

Can you please explain that a little plainer. I really like what you said but I don't completly understand.

Ok, lemme try again....


Before the foundation of the world there was God. (isn't that a wonderful beginning??) It is in fact THE beginning...

Then God created angels... (somewhere in there anyhow)

Now angels were great, they did exactly what they were created to do. Some angles were created to honor, and some to eventual dishonor. They either were for God, or eventually against God...they didn't really have a choice per se.

So, basically God had a bunch of robots doing what he created them to do. (this is a loose analogy)

Lonely huh? God in the vast expanse of eternity... a bunch or robots reporting on the status of grass growing, or how bright the newest start in the latest galaxy is. (again... a loose analogy for the purpose of explanation... I mean no disrespect to angels here)

So God wanted someone to CHOOSE to serve Him. To CHOOSE to Love Him. He knew there was more out there in terms of Love. He wanted to LOVE and to be LOVED.

Well, how can one display love to someone more effectively, than to love them even if they don't love you. Even if they are against you. It's easy to love those that love you... how about those that don't?

And how good does it feel when someone forsakes everyone else...and CHOOSES to love only you?

This is what God did in creating us. He created us on free-moral angency so we could choose Him over the highlights of the world. He allowed the fall, so He could display his awesome love. And to allow for a dynamic in which people, seeing his unestimable love, could choose to love Him back, even if the rest of the world isn't, or even if it isn't easy.

When someone goes out of their way to do something nice to you...it makes you feel good doesn't it?

Do you, created in God's image, think you are so very different from God? You are a reflection of Him...if a love like that makes you feel great, don't you think it does the same for God??

So that is hopefully a little more clear for you.

In the interests of this thread, this is why we are predestinated by FOREKNOWLEGE. Because if we had no choice, the love required would be less.

[EllyMae]

In the interests of this thread, this is why we are predestinated by FOREKNOWLEGE. Because if we had no choice, the love required would be less.

That's right :)

[already bought]

Ok, lemme try again....


Before the foundation of the world there was God. (isn't that a wonderful beginning??) It is in fact THE beginning...

Then God created angels... (somewhere in there anyhow)

Now angels were great, they did exactly what they were created to do. Some angles were created to honor, and some to eventual dishonor. They either were for God, or eventually against God...they didn't really have a choice per se.

So, basically God had a bunch of robots doing what he created them to do. (this is a loose analogy)

Lonely huh? God in the vast expanse of eternity... a bunch or robots reporting on the status of grass growing, or how bright the newest start in the latest galaxy is. (again... a loose analogy for the purpose of explanation... I mean no disrespect to angels here)

So God wanted someone to CHOOSE to serve Him. To CHOOSE to Love Him. He knew there was more out there in terms of Love. He wanted to LOVE and to be LOVED.

Well, how can one display love to someone more effectively, than to love them even if they don't love you. Even if they are against you. It's easy to love those that love you... how about those that don't?

And how good does it feel when someone forsakes everyone else...and CHOOSES to love only you?

This is what God did in creating us. He created us on free-moral angency so we could choose Him over the highlights of the world. He allowed the fall, so He could display his awesome love. And to allow for a dynamic in which people, seeing his unestimable love, could choose to love Him back, even if the rest of the world isn't, or even if it isn't easy.

When someone goes out of their way to do something nice to you...it makes you feel good doesn't it?

Do you, created in God's image, think you are so very different from God? You are a reflection of Him...if a love like that makes you feel great, don't you think it does the same for God??

So that is hopefully a little more clear for you.

In the interests of this thread, this is why we are predestinated by FOREKNOWLEGE. Because if we had no choice, the love required would be less.

Thank-you now I understand. i might be ....... but still I sometimes don't understand it all and need it simplifyed. So thank-you vary much for taking the time to explain that.

[Angelo]

Because God is love. He predestinated us to be conformed to the image of His Son by whom He expressed His love towards us.

[Angelo]

May I ask. How does God predestinate us?

[Angelo]

Is it that we'd hear the gospel and believe, and then all the thing necessary for our salvation been taken care of beforehand, and all the things that'll be needed 'til the redemption of our bodies?

Wow, what a mighty God Jesus is...

[collegegirl]

Bro Trev, thank you so much. Predestination was kindof one of those subjects that I avoided because I "took it by faith", and it was a little deep.

"...To cheapen the love of God"

Ever since I had read the thread, I have been pondering it all. The analogy that you gave, however, really helped. May I try to explain it in my own words how I see it now?

He sees a bride, and He just knows she is for Him, even though perhaps she has never even heard of Him in her life. Like faith, He knows she is His. So He sets forth to capture her heart, her mind, her life, because He loves her so. And it is her choice to come or not, but yet He just knows she will, so He woos her. Her choice, but yet He just knows deep down on the inside that she will come to Him.

Am I seeing it right? Does that make sense?

[BroTrevor]

Bro Trev, thank you so much. Predestination was kindof one of those subjects that I avoided because I "took it by faith", and it was a little deep.

"...To cheapen the love of God"

Ever since I had read the thread, I have been pondering it all. The analogy that you gave, however, really helped. May I try to explain it in my own words how I see it now?

He sees a bride, and He just knows she is for Him, even though perhaps she has never even heard of Him in her life. Like faith, He knows she is His. So He sets forth to capture her heart, her mind, her life, because He loves her so. And it is her choice to come or not, but yet He just knows she will, so He woos her. Her choice, but yet He just knows deep down on the inside that she will come to Him.

Am I seeing it right? Does that make sense?

Sounds pretty close to me.

God being GOd knows the end from the beginning...so that's how he knows we'll come.

But yes... "He sets forth to capture her heart"

Oh yeah...

All about love!

[blessed]

Yes Bro T its all about love and guess what HE LOVES ME ...... YAY :yay: :yay:

[already bought]

God loves me soooooooooooooo much that He chose me to BE his Bride. The king of king, Prince of peace, Mighty congure, Loves me. He's Got riches untold, A home beoned imganion He's owns every thing and conqured it all. BUT MOST OF All he love me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[God'schild]

God loves me soooooooooooooo much that He chose me to BE his Bride. The king of king, Prince of peace, Mighty congure, Loves me. He's Got riches untold, A home beoned imganion He's owns every thing and conqured it all. BUT MOST OF All he love me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen!!!!!!

[joris]

could anyone please be so kind what makes God love... me? I have no clue

[BroTrevor]

could anyone please be so kind what makes God love... me? I have no clue

Without merit buddy... without merit.

He loves, because He IS love.


----------

Could we with ink, the ocean fill
and were the skies of parchment made
and every stalk, on earth a quill
and every man, a scribe by trade.

To write the love, of God above
would drain the ocean dry
nor could the scroll, contain the whole
though stretched from sky to sky.

[Angelo]

It's really nice to have God love you. You just can't express its awesome feeling, so captivating you just can't resist. O how I love Jesus.

[blessed]

could anyone please be so kind what makes God love... me? I have no clue
I tried to figure out that one Bro, did not get anywhere, you just have to accept his love and move on.

[BroTrevor]

I tried to figure out that one Bro, did not get anywhere, you just have to accept his love and move on.


Move on?? Move on??

But I want to stay in His love...

<grin>

[blessed]

Move on?? Move on??

But I want to stay in His love...

<grin>

Move on in his love , you knew what I meant :D

[BroTrevor]

I know...I know...

Movin on!